Does anyone care what FugStick does with it? I don't.
While you may not care and some don’t like his presentation, the dude shoots, a bunch. I’ve never seen him steer anyone wrong when it comes to loading info. Some of us like to go shoot and kill stuff and some guys like to follow a guy around on the net and talk schit. He’s helped me with every question I’ve asked and I can leave it at that.
Does anyone care what FugStick does with it? I don't.
While you may not care and some don’t like his presentation, the dude shoots, a bunch. I’ve never seen him steer anyone wrong when it comes to loading info. Some of us like to go shoot and kill stuff and some guys like to follow a guy around on the net and talk schit. He’s helped me with every question I’ve asked and I can leave it at that.
While you are mostly right, there is a problem with Lever for 75gr 223 making ARs overgassed. It does work well if the rifle is tuned for it, but a 5.56 AR tuned correctly for Lever won't cycle with a lot of other powders like 8208, Varget, etc. The same rifle tuned for those powders will shoot but is severely overgassed with a full load of Lever; in my experience enough to cause severe case head swipes and early unlocking, along with extra wear and tear on the rifle's operating system. If you don't reload that brass maybe you aren't noticing those issues.
FWIW I do use Lever in a handful of different AR cartridges and am not arguing against using it, but pointing out an issue that is ignored by certain people.
Does anyone care what FugStick does with it? I don't.
While you may not care and some don’t like his presentation, the dude shoots, a bunch. I’ve never seen him steer anyone wrong when it comes to loading info. Some of us like to go shoot and kill stuff and some guys like to follow a guy around on the net and talk schit. He’s helped me with every question I’ve asked and I can leave it at that.
While you are mostly right, there is a problem with Lever for 75gr 223 making ARs overgassed. It does work well if the rifle is tuned for it, but a 5.56 AR tuned correctly for Lever won't cycle with a lot of other powders like 8208, Varget, etc. The same rifle tuned for those powders will shoot but is severely overgassed with a full load of Lever; in my experience enough to cause severe case head swipes and early unlocking, along with extra wear and tear on the rifle's operating system. If you don't reload that brass maybe you aren't noticing those issues.
FWIW I do use Lever in a handful of different AR cartridges and am not arguing against using it, but pointing out an issue that is ignored by certain people.
Very interesting.
Do you think LVR is more pregressive burning, having higher pressure down the tube than conventional powder?
Does anyone care what FugStick does with it? I don't.
While you may not care and some don’t like his presentation, the dude shoots, a bunch. I’ve never seen him steer anyone wrong when it comes to loading info. Some of us like to go shoot and kill stuff and some guys like to follow a guy around on the net and talk schit. He’s helped me with every question I’ve asked and I can leave it at that.
Well he has argued with what we have used to WIN matches... He is about a mouthy little worthless itch in my books.
I won't argue his knowledge and what works for him, but thinking its the very best because he does it that way, well I guess it is what it is but there are other ways out there.
Of course I always thought one could share info without being an itch. He proves that wrong regularly.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I went with Lever not due any inherent magic but due to availability. Places to buy powder are scarce in my area but the few places usually have Lever. CFE didn’t give satisfactory results under 75s in my rifles and it’s about the only other commonly available powder that is suitable. I then started a thread here and got advice from Stick and others and went from there. I’m not shooting any competition, mostly shooting rocks, Plates, deer, and pigs with 75s and 77s. It works and works well for that.
I won't argue his knowledge and what works for him, but thinking its the very best because he does it that way, well I guess it is what it is but there are other ways out there.
Applies to so many people, but it is especially prevalent on the fire.
I won't argue his knowledge and what works for him, but thinking its the very best because he does it that way, well I guess it is what it is but there are other ways out there.
Applies to so many people, but it is especially prevalent on the fire.
But only one calls you obscene names when you don't do it like they do.
Does anyone care what FugStick does with it? I don't.
While you may not care and some don’t like his presentation, the dude shoots, a bunch. I’ve never seen him steer anyone wrong when it comes to loading info. Some of us like to go shoot and kill stuff and some guys like to follow a guy around on the net and talk schit. He’s helped me with every question I’ve asked and I can leave it at that.
While you are mostly right, there is a problem with Lever for 75gr 223 making ARs overgassed. It does work well if the rifle is tuned for it, but a 5.56 AR tuned correctly for Lever won't cycle with a lot of other powders like 8208, Varget, etc. The same rifle tuned for those powders will shoot but is severely overgassed with a full load of Lever; in my experience enough to cause severe case head swipes and early unlocking, along with extra wear and tear on the rifle's operating system. If you don't reload that brass maybe you aren't noticing those issues.
FWIW I do use Lever in a handful of different AR cartridges and am not arguing against using it, but pointing out an issue that is ignored by certain people.
Very interesting.
Do you think LVR is more pregressive burning, having higher pressure down the tube than conventional powder?
Any thoughts on what's going on there?
DF
Yes, that's a good way to put it DF.
My best understanding of it is that they were able to make a slow burn rate powder denser, so that you can get enough in the case to boost velocity higher. Doing that results in spreading out the pressure curve longer (we can get more velocity with the same peak pressure if that peak is more like a gentle curve than a sharp spike). In turn, that results in higher pressure at the gas port, which functionally translates as "Lever produces more gas" and makes an AR cycle harder and faster than other common powders for the same application. If you add a suppressor in the mix, as more and more of us are doing these days, the problem gets even worse.
In a bolt or lever action the overgassed condition doesn't matter at all of course even if it's used with a suppressor, other than being a little louder.
I do have a couple favorite loads in other cartridges that use Lever because nothing else is as good. 129gr ABLR in my 6.5 Grendel is one example, and the 40gr V-Max in 20 Tactical is another; both of those give the highest velocity and the best accuracy with Lever at max loads. In the 20 Tactical, I have the rifle's gas adjusted for that one load; no need to use anything else. In the Grendel though, I do use other loads like a 123 ELD and 8208 XBR; at the same gas settings the 129 ABLR/Lever load is seriously overgassed and ruins brass. I solved it with a Bootleg adjustable bolt carrier in that gun; it'd be a good solution for using the 75gr 223 load as well but I haven't got around to buying another yet.
I'll have to look it up tonight and get back to you. Pretty close to a full case, but could still be loaded on a progressive without spilling.
Edit - forgot I had it in my chrono data here - 29.0gr.
LC17 brass 40gr V-Max @ 2.255" Lever 29.0gr 3917 fps at the muzzle
That shoots better than any other load I've found in that rifle, but I could not find any published Lever data and worked up to it myself. Use at your own risk of course.
You couldn't put enough Lever behind a 40gr bullet in a .223 case to cause any problems.
Look at something similar of similar burn rate like CFE-223.
You are not going to get 32 grains of lever in a .223 case....
I think you are probably right, but I wouldn't make that assumption about Lever just based on Quickload. It might work well under a 40gr 223, but you may run out of powder room a little below max. I'd have to check this evening, but since 29.0gr of Lever fit in my 20 Tac cases easily, I think a normal 223 case should fit at least 31gr, don't know about 32.
If you want to use a different powder for 40gr 223, forget CFE223, Ramshot XTerminator is where it's at. When I was shooting a lot of the 40gr V-Max and BT, XTerminator gave the best accuracy and velocity in that old Rem 788. As a point of fact, best accuracy with all of the bullets I used in that range happened close to max loads. Also - use the Western Powders load guide for that stuff.
