24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Journeyman] #14569041 02/13/20
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
Brad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
Originally Posted by Journeyman
Originally Posted by Brad
I’m pretty good on stones. But it’s an art, and that means you have to settle for a bit less than perfection. Anymore with my really expensive Japanese kitchen knives I’ve gone to a mechanical setup.

For the money, I don’t think you can get a better setup than a Hapstone. It has taken the Edge Pro to an entirely different level. I use diamond stones.

https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/hapstone-sharpeners


Those Russki stones are a great budget replacement on the EdgePro!


Indeed they are!

And if starting over, the Hapstone is a better unit than the Edgepro, though I wouldn't sell a perfectly good Edgepro to go Hapstone.


Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose.

“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
BP-B2

Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14569218 02/13/20
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
Boise Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
I received my journeyman machinist training at GE's formal apprentice program in Erie. There I spent time in a classroom learning cutting tool geometries along time spent on the shop floor running cutter grinders. Much of my work at GE after graduation involved the optimization of machining processes. My favorite project was the programming of a CNC lathe to machine locomotive axles. Cutting speeds and tool geometry made up a lot of my life.

If you really wish to know how good your edge is formed then look at it under a microscope. I had one at my desk for the last 25 years and learned even a fixture system has limitations with the biggest issue being uniform stone pressure. My hand sharpening was a joke, the cutting edge was far from uniform. Look at a razor blade edge under a scope, that is your goal. 60x scope works just fine.

Sharpen with a fixture system, strop to maintain the edge. Actually stropping increases the edge angle and you'll need to cut back the blade material to establish a new edge but stropping is far more convenient then setting up the sharpener.


The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14569399 02/13/20
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,615
passport Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,615
Now that’s useful info.


It�s a magazine not a clip......

Advice is seldom welcome, and those who need it the most, like it the least.�
- Lord Chesterfield. 1750
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14569594 02/13/20
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
J
Judman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
I simply use this, quick easy no drama, just simply pull your blade through a few times, shaving sharp yet again.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
Hey Bama, say, ocotillo....
You a hunter, or a killer?
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14569749 02/13/20
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
Boise Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
The issue with the crock system is the cutting geometry is parallel to the cutting edge. Think of the mirco-surface of the cutting edge, it will appear like a raked sand surface with ridges that approximately follow the cutting edge with the ridges occasionally terminating in the cutting edge. And of course you can not hold the exact same location with each pull. This is not an ideal cutting edge where an ideal edge is a uniformly controlled edge. You can create a sharp edge but it won't be ideal.

And this is all assuming your blade starts at a narrow enough angle to engage the cutting edge and not the relief. It would be informative to learn the difference between light and heavy strokes, exactly which part of the edge is contacted.

Hunting partner used a similar carbide edge sharpening tool in the field and it made a significant improvement to his cutting edge but he started with a ridiculously dull edge.


The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
IC-A

Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14570598 02/13/20
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
Brad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
It always surprises me guys will spend a LOT of money on knives, then cheap out on a sharpening system. The Lansky is about the bare minimum I'd use.

There's an old Chinese saying equivalent to our - "he's a jack of all trades, master of none"... the Chinese is - "he has many knives, none are sharp!"


Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose.

“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14570693 02/13/20
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
J
Judman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
Dunno if your talking to me brad, every one of my custom knives you could shave your nuts with. As I said, it works for me...


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
Hey Bama, say, ocotillo....
You a hunter, or a killer?
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: bhemry] #14571085 02/13/20
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,464
O
ol_mike Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
O
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,464
When a blade gets dull it's just that the very fine cutting edge has been bent a micro amount like a 45*-90* angle . And the very finest part of the edge can be curled over ?
Stroping grabs the micro edges and puts them back in alignment ?


dang
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Judman] #14571112 02/13/20
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,999
D
Dillonbuck Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,999
I wanna see that!



Well, not really!





The thing is.
Practical reality.
Steel, grind, thickness, taper.....
All play into how a knife cuts.

As someone who uses a knives of many shapes and styles
In my job. Sharp is when I'm getting a nice cut, without under effort.

Watching videos where someone goes clean nuts to get a blade to
cut nicks in a hair, I wonder. In the real world, would that edge do
any practical work? Or would it roll/chip, or wear off? Leaving
you with a blunt edge.


I'm an American, we kneel to no man.
Only to God!

The Alabama section of Pennsylvania.
Where we cling to our God and Guns.
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Judman] #14571465 02/13/20
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
Brad Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,124
Originally Posted by Judman
Dunno if your talking to me brad, every one of my custom knives you could shave your nuts with. As I said, it works for me...


Not at all Jud... was really just thinking out loud. Sorry, should have made that clear.


Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose.

“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
IC-B

Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Judman] #14571501 02/13/20
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,573
M
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,573
Originally Posted by Judman
I simply use this, quick easy no drama, just simply pull your blade through a few times, shaving sharp yet again.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


I agree with Boise. This can work, if you like a plow for an edge. Provided it is used just to touch up it can and will work. So will a strop with diamond emulsion spray and on a much better scale.

For resurrecting a dull blade good luck unless you are using lesser grade steels. I can't imagine the time and effort that it would take on the likes a S90V or such.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14571642 02/13/20
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,848
LouisB Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,848
I used to freehand and do pretty well.
Went to Lansky diamond a few years ago.
Took some time to get edge cut to spec, but then touch up after that has been easy peasy and quick


Some spelling errors can be corrected by a vowel movement.
~ MOLON LABE ~
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Brad] #14572529 02/14/20
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
J
Judman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Judman
Dunno if your talking to me brad, every one of my custom knives you could shave your nuts with. As I said, it works for me...


Not at all Jud... was really just thinking out loud. Sorry, should have made that clear.


Copy long as a guy doesn’t get his blade butter knife dull I’ve had good success with em. But I like leupold, Toyota use Nosler bt’s etc..😂😂


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
Hey Bama, say, ocotillo....
You a hunter, or a killer?
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: Judman] #14572568 02/14/20
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,573
M
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,573
Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Judman
Dunno if your talking to me brad, every one of my custom knives you could shave your nuts with. As I said, it works for me...


Not at all Jud... was really just thinking out loud. Sorry, should have made that clear.


Copy long as a guy doesn’t get his blade butter knife dull I’ve had good success with em. But I like leupold, Toyota use Nosler bt’s etc..😂😂


But I like leupold, Toyota use Nosler bt’s etc.. I have used and owned worst!


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: ol_mike] #14573266 02/14/20
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
Boise Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,858
Originally Posted by ol_mike
When a blade gets dull it's just that the very fine cutting edge has been bent a micro amount like a 45*-90* angle . And the very finest part of the edge can be curled over ?
Stroping grabs the micro edges and puts them back in alignment ?


Yes, in some cases an edge dulls as you describe but what I saw under a microscope my edges degraded for a multitude of reasons. Most common was the edge would actually round out much like you see with machine cutting tools. Sometimes I saw flat spots or areas which I suspect were from contact with hard surfaces, for example, after boning out a deer or elk my edge would have flat spots which I assume were caused by banging against a bone and sometimes hit rocks. I also saw micro chipping of the edge and at the extreme could feel the chips when sliding my finger edge down the edge but PLEASE don't do this and bleed like I did.

Your edge wear is going to depend on how you use your knife. Push a razor edge too hard and it may bend, use an edge long enough and it will wear round, bang it against something hard and it will flatten. Leave it sit unused and the edge will degrade with oxidation.


The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14573437 02/14/20
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,440
S
stantdm Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,440
I use stones on scandi grind blades because I can lay the grind on the stone and know it is perfect.

Every other grind goes on the Lansky or the Gatco.

I also find that knives with steel like what is used on Russell Green Rivers can be sharpened on about anything. More exotic steels and those with Rockwell numbers in the 58 and up range come out better for me on a guided system.

Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14573439 02/14/20
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,440
S
stantdm Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,440
I use stones on scandi grind blades because I can lay the grind on the stone and know it is perfect.

Every other grind goes on the Lansky or the Gatco.

I also find that knives with steel like what is used on Russell Green Rivers can be sharpened on about anything. More exotic steels and those with Rockwell numbers in the 58 and up range come out better for me on a guided system.

Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14573731 02/14/20
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,058
R
rickmenefee Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
R
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,058
KME makes a very nice system I use




Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14574130 02/14/20
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,464
O
ol_mike Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
O
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,464
Boise ,
Howdy .
Thanks for the info. , it would be cool to see a picture of a very sharp knife under a microscope then pictures in the same exact position throughout the skinning process .

A youtuber kyle noseworthy a canadian i believe showed some sharpening and spoke of what's happening to the leading edge of the cutting surface . Made perfect sense .

Myself I never stropped until a few years ago - i thought the entire ''edge'' was just gone and it might have been . I've became much more aware of how to use a knife - roughhousing the edge anywhere anyany way ruins the edge immediately . Which leads to more roughhousing then you need a lot of sharpening to get another edge on the butterknife .

Thanks for the answer and yes on the oxidation on edges - my older broadheads use to get dull until i used a smidge of vaseline on them .
I'm going to search blade edges under a microscope pictures .


dang
Re: Freehand Stones vs guided knife sharpeners [Re: longarm] #14574768 02/14/20
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
J
Judman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,862
This is getting deep... Microscope a blade edge?... I'll just keep doin what I do, and workin up critters how I do, which is a whole lot more than 99% of members here. I love simple flat ground blades that are made to work, and a havalon in the mix too...😂😂🖕😎👍


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
Hey Bama, say, ocotillo....
You a hunter, or a killer?
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
828 registered members (10ring1, 12344mag, 10pointer, 06hunter59, 117LBS, 10gaugemag, 77 invisible), 2,249 guests, and 927 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.22 Page Time: 0.052s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9186 MB (Peak: 1.0844 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-09-28 01:53:21 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS