"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
Thanks for your first hand knowledge & experience. I do NOT worship JOC but I appreciate his hunting experience and writing. I have more of his mag articles than books.
I would like to look at & hold a Rifle that he had hunted.
The Al Biesen O’Connor rifle discussed above is indeed owned by Hank Kaufman. It is true that the rifle was unfinished when Jack died, and at Jack’s funeral the O’Connor family instructed Al to complete the rifle. When it was finished, the family agreed to let Hank have the rifle for the remaining cost of having it completed.
The rifle has the original factory Ruger barrel, turned down, in .280 Remington, with custom rings and a Leupold 4x scope. I have had it in my hands, but don’t recall it being displayed at the O’Connor center annual shindig.
It is fitting that the rifle went to Hank, who was a lifelong friend and hunting partner of Jack’s, and with whom Jack made his last hunt.
Thanks GF1.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Didn't read the whole thread but I always think that it is interesting that Jack O'Conner's last custom rifle by the Bieson's was a 280. Unfortunately he passed away before the rifle was finished. I wonder where it is now or if anyone has photos of it?
AFAIK,the rifle you are referring to is in the hands of Henry Kaufman.
Elkhunter
You may very well be right. I have attended about half the recent fundraiser weekends (held in mid-June) for the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center in Lewiston, and one of the highlights is a small "gun show," with maybe 30 tables. Many of the rifles are not for sale, because they're ex-O'Connor rifles (both Jack's and Eleanor's) shown by their present owners. Henry Kaufman has been there, and we met and had several interesting conversations. I might have seen that very rifle on his table the first time I attended, in 2014.
Am going to be checking with Brad about various things soon, and will ask him.
Please let us know what he says.
Bradford is one person I would love to sit down with and just chit chat.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
What can I do with a 7mm/284 bore that the 270's won't accomplish (out to 500 yards on all N.A. Game except Large Bears).? Should i be content with the 270's or should I acquire, scratch the itch, a .284/7mm bore.?
Not likely you’ll walk into a Walmart and find .280 ammo. Unless you have an aftermarket fast twist barrel, you won’t be stabilizing .600+ BC bullets out of the .270. A quandary for sure...😁
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
I own (4) 270s and I own (3) 280AIs. I have killed a lot of deer with both. There are more differences between my rifles than between the cartridges.
I like 130 gr Nos Bal Tip in the 270. I like 140 gr Nos Bal Tip in the 280ai. I am shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag.
I also like the 6.5-06 120 gr and 7mmRM 140 gr for long range hunting. They all work.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
It's hard to believe that most of you are still "Lost in the 50s". Don't get me wrong, I appreciate older rifles, but reading through this thread, I'm stunned that some of you continue to use 270s. Wow! I cannot think of anything useful that's 'long and skinny', or 'short and fat' for that matter. The 270 had its day, before hunters knew any better. But the modern age was born in the 1960s, just a hair before peace and love became the norm.
Wood gave way to plastic, which was superior in every way. Plastic was also cheaper and faster to make too. Ditching walnut came with an unexpected benefit: rifles became more accurate than ever before.
Winchester realized their mistake with long and skinny, and made up for it by creating what the board room called its "Do All Cartridge" for North America, the 300 Winchester Magnum. It was muscular and sleek. It was more powerful and caught everyone's eye. It was rumoured Jack O'Connor said to one Winchester executive that, "The only thing missing is fins, like on a Cadillac!" Whether that's true or not will never be known, but one thing was for sure, the 300 Win Mag was the darling of the hunting crowd back when they still remembered how to build things.
The world was changing. It was the rocket age. Cars still had fins, but they were sleeker, like the lines of the 300 Win Mag.
"Unless you have an aftermarket fast twist barrel, you won’t be stabilizing .600+ BC bullets out of the .270."
Um, not exactly. As I have reported here and other places, I decided to see whether the .270 170-grain Berger EOL would stabilize from a 1-10 twist in my part of Montana. Turns out it does, and has shot very well in a couple of rifles, both with 22-inch barrels.
The downside is that BC is slightly compromised. According to the Berger stability program, it's 7% less than listed by Berger--which is only the G7 BC, not the G1 you mention. That's at 35 degrees F. and 4000 feet above sea level, which is the valley floor around here. I looked up how Bryan Litz rates the G1 BC in his book BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE OF RIFLE BULLETS, and it's .670, which minus 7% is .623. (The G7, the form factor used for high-BC bullets these days, is around .340, which -7% is .619.)
The hunting country in the local mountains above the valley averages around 7500 feet above sea level. Even at zero F. at 7500', the Berger program says the BC is slightly higher--and the bullet slightly more stable.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I've filled some tags with the .270 Winchester especially in South Dakota. But when I moved to NC I sold everything except my model 700 .280 and used that exclusively for a season. Didn't have any luck that season.
What can I do with a 7mm/284 bore that the 270's won't accomplish (out to 500 yards on all N.A. Game except Large Bears).? Should i be content with the 270's or should I acquire, scratch the itch, a .284/7mm bore.?
Not likely you’ll walk into a Walmart...
John
tru dat
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
It's hard to believe that most of you are still "Lost in the 50s". Don't get me wrong, I appreciate older rifles, but reading through this thread, I'm stunned that some of you continue to use 270s. Wow! I cannot think of anything useful that's 'long and skinny', or 'short and fat' for that matter. The 270 had its day, before hunters knew any better. But the modern age was born in the 1960s, just a hair before peace and love became the norm.
Wood gave way to plastic, which was superior in every way. Plastic was also cheaper and faster to make too. Ditching walnut came with an unexpected benefit: rifles became more accurate than ever before.
Winchester realized their mistake with long and skinny, and made up for it by creating what the board room called its "Do All Cartridge" for North America, the 300 Winchester Magnum. It was muscular and sleek. It was more powerful and caught everyone's eye. It was rumoured Jack O'Connor said to one Winchester executive that, "The only thing missing is fins, like on a Cadillac!" Whether that's true or not will never be known, but one thing was for sure, the 300 Win Mag was the darling of the hunting crowd back when they still remembered how to build things.
The world was changing. It was the rocket age. Cars still had fins, but they were sleeker, like the lines of the 300 Win Mag.
A 1963 Caddy
That argument is like saying.. "You still use Wheels? They we using wheels a 1000 years ago!". Yes the .270 has been around for a while......so what? It still works just fine. Is a deer or pronghorn going to refuse to die because some people think the .270 is old fashioned?
As one of my industry friends says, "We are considering 'best before' dates on ammunition, powder and primers. As well, any cartridge that was designed and used over 25 years ago will be dropped from the list of "permitted cartridges". The idea is to keep companies producing the ammunition and accessories you need without the bother of having to supply a reloader's or DIY market.
The number of reloaders is dwindling. It's all part of the plan.
Somehow, I just don't see the magic in a .270. Never wanted one, having one '06 and a 7x57. (Now two '06 and three 7s.) Plus .25/06, several .257Rs and .250 Savages, a 6/5x257AI, etc. I never wanted a .270, but ended up with two: a Ruger #1 that was such a good deal I couldn't pass, and a tang safety 77 that I bought from Dad's best friend's widow, as a remembrance of him. But, they do nothing special that the others don't..And the only way I'll have a .280 is if a screaming deal shows up, because I have 7x57s. I hope this doesn't jeopardize my loony status too much.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
"Unless you have an aftermarket fast twist barrel, you won’t be stabilizing .600+ BC bullets out of the .270."
Um, not exactly. As I have reported here and other places, I decided to see whether the .270 170-grain Berger EOL would stabilize from a 1-10 twist in my part of Montana. Turns out it does, and has shot very well in a couple of rifles, both with 22-inch barrels.
The downside is that BC is slightly compromised. According to the Berger stability program, it's 7% less than listed by Berger--which is only the G7 BC, not the G1 you mention. That's at 35 degrees F. and 4000 feet above sea level, which is the valley floor around here. I looked up how Bryan Litz rates the G1 BC in his book BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE OF RIFLE BULLETS, and it's .670, which minus 7% is .623. (The G7, the form factor used for high-BC bullets these days, is around .340, which -7% is .619.)
The hunting country in the local mountains above the valley averages around 7500 feet above sea level. Even at zero F. at 7500', the Berger program says the BC is slightly higher--and the bullet slightly more stable.
Good to know John. I never would have imagined a 1:10 would stabilize the 170gr EOL, even at 4k+ DAs. Many thanks for the real world info.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Funny ..... I have the same in 280 also build on a M78. I find them to be smooth actions and cheaper than 700s.
Every gunsmith I know who has had the opportunity to install barrels on M78's has mentioned they were among the straightest M700 actions/bolt faces they had run across.
Maybe it was just the luck of the draw........
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
and pitch a temper tantrum 
because the
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