Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Rural Living Need help with first tractor purchase

I grew up bucking hay, cleaning dairy cow stalls and worked a tree farm into my late teens...however, I now own my own little piece (20 acres) and am looking to purchase my first, and only tractor.

My current needs are moving some dirt for miscellaneous projects like shooting backstops, tilling a large garden-possibly some food plots in the future, brush hogging and lastly a fence post digger. I believe I can do most of that with one of the subcompact models (18-23HP). Where I'm torn is I have about 17 acres tied up in thick alpha. This coupled with wife and kids starting to talk about a horse, me- some beef, etc. has me thinking of baling. Ive got a fella that baled it last year and offered me hay for the arrangement. I have also had similar offers from others. So while I'm content to let others bail it and take some hay as payment, part of me says if your going to buy a tractor, get something that will do hay. A new fancy round baler and 45 HP tractor inst in the budget, but am thinking a slight upgrade from a subcompact to something in the 25-30HP range is do-able along with a used square baler (something like a New Holland 310, etc.) Ive looked at the Kubota L2501DT (25 HP, but 100 ci) and Mahindra 1626 Shuttle (26 HP). For me it seems you get a pretty good step-up in performance for a little more $ than the sub-compacts. So will one of these 25-26 HP models lay some square bales on my flat alfalfa field or wishful thinking? I seem to remember as a kid folks baling with an old ford 8n, and while not ideal, they did the job. However, I dont trust memory anymore

Tom, I'm sure even in this basement forum you will get some advice. I'm not sure what to tell you.

I would not go too small, a live pump, and live power is a lot hander than the old 8, or 9 N.

I hear ya. Ive pretty much ruled out the sub-compacts for this reason. Always better to have more than what you currently need. The 25 HP seem the most bang for the buck. There is also the used route, but the 0% interest financing options currently available are very attractive.

You can't do much if you need more horsepower in the future, but buy a new tractor with more hp...

Consider what your future needs are before you buy the first time.

Wouldn't consider much less than 45-50hp in any type baling situation, personally.

Go to Tractorbynet.com and ask some questions there, and perhaps get some better answers.

Are you planning on mowing as well ? I don't think 50 hp is enough power to get it done.

Do you have a budget for this? Can you do some mechanic stuff or prefer to hire it out? Are you retired or have lots of time available?

Haying on the cheap still means a used sickle mower, a side delivery rake , a baler, something to haul the bales, and some leather gloves.

IME machinery always breaks down on the holiday/long weekend I had earmarked for a project-just saying!

If it's good hay, around here custom operators will mow, rake & bale for half the crop.

If I was going to invest time and $ in getting a old NH baler running well, then yes I would be mowing via sickle and raking with side delivery. No sense piece medaling it out. Retrieval would be done via pick-up and trailer, but hey...I’ve got 3 kids that need to experience something better than TV and phones 😁

I worked in a diesel shop as a teen and currently do all my own maint on all my stuff. For a living I work on complicated stuff which circles back to Cowdoc’s question; work full time, can be demanding with travel, but 4-10’s, so 3 day weekends. I like to tinker, but also like to hunt/fish/shoot.

Budget is the part I have a hard time zeroing in on. I’m a pretty practical guy, so budget has to be justified. I don’t really need any of this stuff, it’s for hobby farming, which is why I refuse to go big. In all honesty, a used yanmar or Kubota in the $5-7K range would probably suite my needs if I keep having others harvest the hay. It’s just that if Im going to pay $15K for a sub-compact, it seems the next step up to something 25 HP for another 2K seems like a good idea.

If you're mowing the hay, at the very least, you'll need a sickle bar...…..which is heavy. PTO horsepower is one consideration. Tractor weight is another. We have a Kubota B2930 on the tree farm. That's more horsepower than an old John Deere A. But no weight to handle big implements. Your baler is going to be heavy, too. If your fields are all level...………. But if you have slopes, you need tractor weight to keep you out of sticky situations.

We did a little haying on level and rolling terrains. Our IH-584 did well. 60 horsepower and around 6000 lbs on the hoof.

I am a huge fan of Orange. We also have, on the tree farm, a Kubota MX-5000 4WD. 52 horsepower an 3500 lbs + the 500 hanging on the front. Will handle any baling job on any reasonable (and most any UNreaonable) terrain you wanna work it on. It doesn't have a lot of frills or creature comforts. Nice used ones with good hours can be had with little pain.

Kubota I’m looking at is 2600lb. I’m told it’s a beefier tractor (same frame as 3000 series) but with motor detuned to pass EPA standards without the Diesel add-ons. Supposedly generous torque, though not sure how this helps on the PTO, good power in the low RPMs...I sound like a sales brochure which means I’m probably over thinking things and won’t ever do hay, just need to get a dude doing things on a tractor for fun tractor.

FWIW- Hay field is flat as a bored and drains well, small pond on it. Could drive a wheel rear drive car across it.

Also my neighbor is in the same boat, has some gear, though not ideal. Between the both of us we may be able to accomplish something.

Maybe it's just me... But don't consider 25hp as a step up. Hell, my lawn mower is 25hp...

For the same money, you could find a cream puff used tractor with enough HP to blow your mind compared to a 25hp.

Barry's right. We have a 22HP sub-compact JD, with mower deck and loader. We've used it for a little bit of everything......pulling a 4 foot rotary tiller in the garden, digging postholes, grading the drive, as well as mowing and using the loader. The bottom line is that while it will do most jobs, it's not really suited to do them, and it can be hard on the tractor. After a few years of figuring that out, I bought a 45HP compact, a NH TC45A, and have never looked back.

You, and only you, know what you can afford, and know what your plans are. You can do small jobs with a bigger tractor, but not bigger jobs with a small tractor. Trying to do work that is heavier than what a tractor is designed for will either get you hurt, or your tractor damaged. It's always better to go larger than what you think you need.

I hear you guys and some good points. I think I’m getting sucked into the aspect of the L2501 being built on a bigger frame, 100 ci engine, but detuned to 25 HP. I guess in the end it’s still a 25 HP tractor, even though it appears meatier.

Link to L2501

Going to keep cruising the used ads until I can make up my mind.

Meaty isn't bad at all.

Three things a tractor has to have in order to operate well:

1) Horsepower

2) Weight

3) Traction

The smaller 4x4 tractors make up for some of their other shortcomings with the 4x4 feature.

I had my 45hp 4x4 break the linkage that engages the front wheels. Before I got it repaired, I was shocked at how little I could do with it. Especially with the loader... it needed that 4x4 function badly.

Again a good dealer close by is important.

posted before....my 2010 Kioti CK 35....4x4.....shuttle gear driven......bought new in 2010

Having only 450 hrs to date.....been a good trouble free machine.......

Perfect machine for around my 23 acre property......IIRC it was $17K new back then with FEL

along with 2 other non PTO impliments...works for me..........

I have the 2501 Kubota. It is rated at17 HP,but tuned to 25 they tell me. If you are talking haying,then step up to the next size .I think it is 37HP. Not sure. You will probably need hydraulics to the rear as well as the front. Nice thing about the 37 HP,you can get the enclosed cab for it.The2501 you can't. I opted fro Ag tires and std transmission .I never liked the hydro static transmissions. If you get the industrial tires,you can't get a set of chains on them.I had the dealer set the wheels out as far as possible. It seems squirrely wanting to turn over with them in close.

I prefer the Kubota front Quick Disconnect because they will use any Universal skid steer implement which you can usually pick p cheaper than John Deere stuff.

Mine will use 5 ft brush hog, a 5 ft snow blower ,plow ,disc. I have 3 ft hay spears and can easily move a 3x3x8 ft , 800 pound hay bale,but not a 3x4.I have to keep the rear blade on the back with an extra 100 pounds on it to handle the 3x3's. .It would probably pick up the3 x4's,but I would needed a lot more weight on the rear.

If you have someone to do custom haying, I'd look there instead of buying your own equipment. For that small plot,you can tie up a lot of money in mowers,rakes balers etc. Of course the bigger you go, the less you can get around in small places.

I will also add that, at least around here,every John Deere dealer will screw you every chance they get. Everything they sell is MSRP, even the big dealers way out in farm country. The Kubota dealer in Colorado Springs is the same way. Acts like he is doing you a favor, I traveled 60 miles and saved about $4000 by going out east of Pueblo. La Junta was even better. Get away from the dealers that sell to small hobby farmers

Yep, that’s where I’ve arrived, too much $ to harvest 17 acres of hay. I’d rather have a new fishing boat. I’ve pretty much dismissed the making hay option. Looking for something to build a shooting berm, till the garden and food plots, drill fence post holes. Thinking used, I can fix most stuff. If it doesn’t run one weekend, not the end of the world, my lively-hood doesn’t depend upon it.

The 2501 will do you then unless you want an enclosed cab. Drilling post holes might be a problem because you won't have any downward pressure. OK for soft ground probably. That is another instance where you might want to rent a skid steer with one on the front. I looked around a lot and with the price of used ones, I could not justify buying used vs new. New 2501 with bucket and blade will probably be in the $18K range if the dealer will want to really sell one.

BTW, someone mentioned their lawn mower is 20 hp so the 25HP is no step up. My lawn mower is 20 hp and my 2501is only 25h.There is no comparison.I have 8 fwd gears and 4 reverse

Very true. Regardless of color.

That’s what I am seeing here. 5 year old ones are 15,500, new is 17,500 with a warranty. No brained if I go that route.

If it were me, I'd look for something the size of a IH 756, or a Deere 4020. If it were me.

The 2501 will get you by for now........ I thought that when I bought my L2800..... 10 acres more of fence and running horses and wish I would have went a little bigger....It will do it but..... But I gots hills....lotsa hills. My 2800 is known for being tall and narrow(wheel base). Looking at tractor data....the 2501 nets 23.8hp and 20ish on your pto depending on transmission. 3pt attachments like HP, smaller tractors will do it, but more HP does it better. Example...the wood chipper I have will do up to a 6 inch dia tree/limb........ but not with what I get at the pto, about 25hp. Think long term plans where your going with this. 15g will by a lot of used tractor

YMMV
Joe

I don't recall if you have irrigated hay ground but if you get one cut a year just do a share crop deal. If it is irrigated and you get 3 cuts it makes a little sense but is marginal. It takes a lot of hay at $75 a ton to pay for a tractor, baler, swather, maintenance, and fuel. 3 cuts might do it, 1 cut won't. There is, of course, more to it and sometimes it is just nice to do your own thing. If you do buy a tractor by a used one of at least 50 hp and 85 would be better.

How would letting someone else do the haying and then renting a skid steer work for you?

My 2501 with a 60 snowblower on back will blow 2 ft deep snow with out choking and it has no problem with thick grass/weeds and the 5 ft brush hog or pulling a JD 40 ground driven manure spreader.. Ralphie has the right idea. Get a tractor that will do almost all you need, but share crop the hay and rent a skid loader for the heavy work.The only thing I can't do is pick a 3x3 off the top of a semi load that my buddy can pick two of them off with his skid loader.

Joe,Can't you turn your wheels around to get a wider stance?

Saddlesore,

I can and I have , I can go out one more. Being a newbie when I bought it and using it mostly for driveway maintenance and such I didn't really need to. It wasn't until I started fencing,mowing and hauling bales with gritted teeth and that "whoa this is getting exciting feeling" that I discovered that. Then I started researching etc..... Of course I had already bought the implements sized for the narrow wheel base, so currently trying this out before I upsize the implements, if I push the rears out farther the implements will be inside the wheel width. Wish I could do something for the fronts, that will be my next research project. So far it's doing better

I can't believe you will not be better off to have the hay cut and baled on a shares deal.

The restt of your planned uses seem reasonable enough.

Barry and Yoder hit on some great points.

Be very careful rating working ability on hp

Barry runs a big mower. HP is huge. And he is dealing
with units that have some mass.

But, many of these newer tractors are mobile power, not
workers. Around here, with our steep hills I have seen old
iron from the 40s and 50's thoroughly embarrass new 4wd
tractors with twice the hp It defies explanation, but the low
rpm, high torque engines, tall narrow tires, on a heavy iron platform
combine to make a machine that will work way harder than the hp
would indicate.

Compare a modern 25 up tractor to one that's 70 years old
and you have a toy beside a tool.

It's like the old, don't take a knife to a gun fight.

I don't think the OP is needinga large tractor from what he posts.

Maybe true with large tractors, but compare say an old Ford 8N vs a newer same size tractor like a Kubota 2501 The old Fords don't have the mass in the front axle to do heavy lifting BTDT. A 2501 Kubota has about the same HP raring as the old Ford, but the Ford didn't have the gearing..It is about like comparing a 58 Ford 1/2T with a newer F150 that has tow rating of 13,000 lbs (not that I would ever try to max that out. ) Plus with these newer tractors,you get a 5 ft bucket vs the old Fords had 30" one or so. It wasn't even as wide as the front wheels. I have had older Fords 8n an 9N's, John Deere 40's and Massey Furgeson. I sure like them at the time and have even spent some time using mule teams to pull equipment, but sure won't go back to them.

I tried that on my 2501,but the front tires came too close to the tractor frame when in a tight turn.

Yep on the 8n.

I might draw fire, but they are the most overrated old
iron running. They had the best lift hitch, it became the standard.

That's about all the good I have to say about them.


Well, I never saw one run out of power in the dirt...
They didn't get good enough traction.

JD, A/C, Farmall, Case.... any over a Ford for ground working.

My late father in law was a JD man, and he used to say that all a little Ford tractor was good for was to use to gather the eggs with............whatever that meant. lol

A Wagner loader option was a 4' bucket.

Fluid in the tires helps.

Front end loader, cultivator, plow, disc, bush hog, dirt scoop, post hole auger, cord wood buzz saw, belly mount sickle mower, back blade.

My Granddad called it his hired man.

Fluid is the norm here.
Cast iron wheel weights are very common.
I would imagine it's the same there.

I found it weird when Barry commented negatively on extra weight.
I get it, weight will sink him. Different conditions, different solutions.

Yeah, this sandy country down here will ruin your day if you are too heavy.

About 4 years ago, I had my big shredder go down to bottom in a pasture. Couldn't do anything with it. Luckily, it was my last ranch to shred of the year.

Had to unhook from it and wait for conditions to dry out. My tractor had enough float, I didn't get it stuck, but it was still iffy...

That shredder stayed in the pasture for about 4 months IIRC.

Now I have this Bad Boy...



Gotta be real careful to not stick it too.

Fluid is mostly a thing of the past. Cast weights have proven to be much better.

Just my .02

If I understand, the OP is wanting to cut, rake, and square bale. He is also wanting to use a sickle mower and a side rake. For those two operations, a 25-35 HP tractor will work fine. When I was in high school, I hauled hay for some fellows that did commercial baling. They cut, raked, and bailed around 250,000 bales per year. All of it was cut with a Ford 2000 and a 6' sickle mower. It was raked with a Ford 3000 and a NH side rake.

The square baler was also a NH and it was pulled with a Ford 3000.

Prior to these fellows buying the 2000's and 3000 tractors, they commercial baled for years with a Jubilee cutting and 2 541's doing the raking and baling.

The rotary cutters and round balers take more HP. I knew a fellow that had a JD round baler, but it only made about 600 lb rolls, and he used a 990 David Brown with no problems.

Having said this, I'll be the first to admit that extra HP is a good thing, because you will always wind up trying to do something, where it is needed. That's just human nature.

JD 4020 can be had for 9 to 10 grand.
Been great for us. -tnscouter

You might look at the mahindra 3510. $10-10.5k around here.

I would stay away from the tier 4 engines.

I’ve got a Ferguson T035 that I do my hay making with run a 451 sickle mower a side delivery rake and a NH 67 baler

Exactly what I was talking about.

Having a bigger tractor is nice, but not necessary.