Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Boy Scouts file for chap. 11 bankrupcy

I have a good friend, just a couple years younger than me that was both an Eagle Scout and a converted Catholic. He was active with both institutions for many years.

We were talking about all the pedophile problems both institutions have been having. He stated that as far as he knew, both institutions did not "draw" pedophiles. The incidence of child molestation were no better or worse than elsewhere. The problem was the amount of trust folks placed in these institutions. I'm inclined to agree.

Dad was a boy scout. Grandpa was fearsome individual and was 100% involved with every scout trip-- even volunteered his dump truck to haul the gear. No one would have dared touch his three sons.

Me? I was a cub scout. I was in for a year or so and then we moved out to the 'burbs and that was that. I was close enough, that I could have stayed in my pack, but my folks said there were things going on that they didn't like. They didn't specify, but I suspect it was the fact a few families had full sway over all the other parents. I was inclined to agree. Their kids were taught they could ride herd on the rest of us. In that atmosphere, anything could have happened.

I had no interest in Boy Scouts. The scouts I knew growing up were all big on pornography and they'd smuggle smutty magazines along on campouts. Again, that was a situation that was an invitation to other worse things.

Where things really ran amok was in a cabal of teens that built the ultimate king-$hit tree fort back in the woods. This became a den for all sorts of stuff. Drug use? Buggery? Porn? Yes, and more. It finally burned down under mysterious circumstances shortly before I graduated high school. I got a tour of it by one of the guys who'd got wind of the worst of it and cleared out. It was something like 5 stories tall. The problem: no adult supervision.

Finally, my son's first bagpipe band had been victimized by a pedarest. At 8, Angus was the first youngster to join the band after this creep had been run out of town. He'd managed to get about half a dozen young boys involved. The families thought they were dropping the kids off for lessons. It's a long hairy story, but again, it was a lack of oversight by the parents that let this goon have his way. While my son was growing up, KYHillChick or I attended every lesson and both of us went to every practice. That still was almost not enough; Angus got harassed by a new Australian pipe major that wanted to make an example of him. Shortly before the pipe major got thrown out, I had to square off with him one night. He was ex-military, and I was an IT-schlub, but I outweighed him by a hundred pounds, and the guy decided rightly that I could probably crush him. The band leadership were all witnesses and were all ashamed that I had to step in and put a quick end to things.

I'm sorry for the Boy Scouts, but I'd say it was victimized by a lack of involvement by the parents and too much trust in the leaders.

Blame it on something that can't possibly be verified, (sexual abuse).

While I have no doubt it was a contributing factor, I also think it being turned into "kid" scouts turned a lot of people away.


JMO

Clyde

I agree. I got in to Cub Scouts in 1959, I was in Boy Scouts and then Explorers, total of 6 years. I went for 2 weeks to Camp Bert Adams in the summer, and I went on a hundred camp outs.
I never saw any funny stuff going on, such as, a boy going in to the adult tent at midnight, etc. I never heard a word about any pervert stuff going on.
I just can't believe that this was a common practice. Our Scout leaders were tough WW2 veterans, I just don't see this on a wide scale back in the sixties in Atlanta.

Makes me sick to see the Boy Scouts destroyed it was a great organization.

Sorry to see this once great organization go, but it is past time for Boy Scouts Inc. to die. First, they lost sight of their purpose - to prepare young men to be first responders and military men or at least men who could handle an emergency. Then they let open homosexuals in. Now it's girls. So, instead of making warriors, they are going to make pussies out of boys and fake men out of girls.

Goodbye! Good riddance!

Hopefully Trail Life or some other worthy organization will be able to pick up Philmont.

I was 100% against them allowing gay leaders. But that said, if you followed the rules, it didn't matter if the leader was gay - and lets face it - if this has been going on for quite some time, its not a gay leader issue, its a pedophile issue long before gays were - at least out in the open about being scout leaders.

I was involved in scouting from 2007-2015 in some form. The rules are very clear. You cannot EVER be alone with a scout, in our troop, that included not even being in the next room. When we would do testing for memorizing oathes it would be in a hallway next to the main hall, out of earshot but in plain view of everyone else.

Adults could not stay in tents with scouts at campouts , period, not even parents. You want your child in your tent? then we encourage you to take the child camping on your own, this is a scout function, not a family get together. And every parent that went on a trip had to take the child interaction training - I don't remember what it is called, but it was an online class that took about an hour that spelled out the rules on the steps they are taking to protect against that sort of thing.

in no case could only one adult scoutmaster take scouts on a camping trip.

If there was going to be abuse happening to a scout, it was going to have to be a multi-adult organized activity which seems highly unlikely. The only thing we couldn't really protect against was two boys doing whatever in a tent after we broke for the evening.

I'm sure other troops weren't as dedicated to following these rules as we were, some were pretty loose, some had too few parents wanting to be involved and some just had for lack of better choices, adult leaders that had no business leading children.

That said, I guess its a numbers game - it was bound to happen at some point, but I can't believe it happened with the numbers they are indicating.


My son is an Eagle Scout. He is still early in life, in his early 20's, and I see the positive influence of scouting every day , not to mention that being an Eagle Scout has landed him two jobs.

I think you've got the recipe just about right. I think the only part you got wrong was the unlikeliness.

Let me give you an example. My youngest, Angus, was harassed by a creepy kid in Middle School. The boy had a screw loose and frequently made gross impositions on other boys. Other people laughed it off. Angus didn't. He finally stood up in the middle of class one day and announced his opposition to having this kid attempting to fondle him. It was a major blow-up. Everyone got hauled to the principal's office. It turned out the other boy was the son of one of the guidance counselors. They got the boy out of the class and moved him elsewhere. 'HillChick and I heard about it from Angus. We waited. Nothing happened.

In another example, a male substitute teacher (a real flamer) started making exceedingly rude remarks to male students. Angus came home and told us. I knew Angus was safe, so I just waited. Sure enough, the substitute just moved on after someone else complained. No word from the school. Lesson for us. Lesson for Angus.

There's just so much complicity in all this-- too many blind eyes.

I'd say about half of my girlfriends in college had a story about gross sexual imposition by a teacher or a coach or a minister. The boys I knew were more quiet about it. I got a BFA from a music school, so there were a larger than average number of gay guys in the dorm. Nearly every one of them had a story of being abused by a teacher, a minister, a coach or a scout leader. Most of them credited that for their homosexuality.

Lots of perverts out there.

I doubt there are near as many perverts in scouts as there are opportunists in court.

This is where I am at.

There are many political motivations in seeing the Scouts go down. If you question that, go back to the news clip reactions to those well known individuals who publicly stated being against gays being in the Scouts. They were driven through the fire.

Nobody really had any idea what the truth actually is.

I had several friends that were Eagle Scouts back in the 60s. I never was a scout. Got my son in it, but the scout leaders were terrible so he bailed out often a year or two.
With all the abuse, I’m glad he was only in for a short time.

An organized troop with real leadership makes such a huge difference in the scouting experience for these boys.

And doing it one Institution at a time.

I was a scout making to "Life" rank....didn't Eagle due to car fumes and perfume. Made sure my son "Eagled" and he did, Now I have four grandsons in scouting so going around a second time to insure my grandsons "Eagle" as well. We have an excellent troop with committed leadership.

Since returning to scouting I am impressed with the about of young boys who want to learn how to shoot, fish, shoot archery and camp. I'm all in. You create an outdoors mans one kid at a time.

I CHALLENGE ANY CAMPFIRE MEMBER HERE WHO SPENT TIME IN SCOUTING IF YOU REMEMBER YOUR SCOUTMASTERS NAME? Most old guys do regardless of your age. My point is with so many years that have passed "YOU" still remember your scoutmasters name......kinda tells you the influence scoutmasters have on a young
boys developing years.


There is not one campfire member here who cannot have a positive influence to a young man's life in the outdoors... and I say to you .."WHY NOT?

Trail Life USA taking over where Boy Scouts used to be.

I don't know how many were molested, but the record of it occurring is undisputed.

"Between 1944 and 2016, at least 7,800 suspected assailants sexually abused 12,254 boys in the Boy Scouts. Experts say these numbers are a gross underestimation"

see: https://time.com/longform/boy-scouts-sex-abuse/

I joined scouting in 1958 in a troop that was sponsored by the LDS church, and earned the rank of Eagle in 1963. I had a great time, enjoyed all the fun events with other youths and learned valuable skills that have been useful for my entire life.

I was an assistant scoutmaster and scoutmaster when my son was in scouting. He earned his Eagle rank in 1994.
I again became assistant scoutmaster when a good friend asked me to help out with troop where he was the scoutmaster.

I have been assistant scoutmaster, scoutmaster and merit badge counselor for my grandson's troop. He has completed all the ranks and merit badge requirements for his Eagle rank. He just has to accomplish his Eagle project, which has been approved, to be awarded his Eagle. So now it's just a matter of time before he is awarded his Eagle. I hope that scouting doesn't collapse before he completes the journey.

In all that time, I have never seen any instance of abuse by an adult on a youth. I'm not saying that it didn't happen. I'm just saying that I never saw it.

The mistake that the Catholics and BSA made was that they should have reported any/all allegations of abuse to the police as soon as they were made aware it. By not reporting the allegations they became accessories to the crimes. I guess they were worried about their reputation. But they would have been better off if they had been honest. After all "Trustworthy" is the first of the twelve articles of the Scout Law. I suppose that they will get what they have earned by not living up to their own values. Hind sight is always 20/20.

Eeveryone could see what was probably going to happen when the National Council signed their own death warrant by allowing openly gay people to participate and by inviting girls into the organization. It no longer was the Boy Scouts of America after that. They didn't say why the Mormons pulled out, but most people think that it is because the moral compass of the BSA and that of the church no longer coincided.

Everyone on the Mailing list for the BSA got an e-mail this morning explaining the situation. The local Councils will continue because each is individually incorporated. But scouting is not what it was when I as a youth. I don't know where it will go from here.

I seem to remember reading an article not too long ago stating that the BSA was selling Phillmont in an attempt to make some money to pay off the law suits. Are they liquidating assests?

Mr. D. Allen and Mr. J. Quinn.
Both were WW2 Airborne (101) combat veterans.

KC, if I’m not mistaken I think that the aclu labeled The Scouts as a hate group.

In and of itself that should make every American male want to support it.