Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Here's a test you can do at home

...if you reload. I was prepping 200 of the 1000 cleaned, but otherwise unprocessed, 5.56 brass I bought recently. They are all IVI Cdn military cases that I like to use for my 6x45mms and now, the 223 Wlyde Contender. How much does your die reduce the neck diameter?

Reloaders own calipers and some own more than one set of reloading dies. You can do this measurement and see the differences in your equipment. Caveat: Your calipers probably cannot accurately measure down to 10,000 of an inch, and aren't really made to measure round things, but hey, it's just an informal test, right? Oh, and don't forget to measure the necks before you resize them, okay?

As I was visually inspecting them, something else occurred to me. Over the years I have collected a lot of 223 dies. Besides measuring the neck diameters, why not measure for runout?

It's generally accepted that hunting rifles can handle 2 or 3 thou of runout without sending bullets all over the place. I wondered if my resizing dies caused any. Because it was cold and I didn't feel like going anywhere, I grabbed the 223 die sets and decided to run a small sample test of my brass. Here are the four contenders: A Lee Loader - neck sizes only; A Redding Deluxe Die Set - it has two resizing dies - a FL and neck sizer. It is NOT a bushing die set. It is a traditional 'squeeze the brass to fit' die set. And finally, my hybrid set, It has a body die, Forster seater and a collet die. The total is 4 resizing dies.

Why not measure both the neck diameter after resizing and induced runout?



As I said earlier, the brass is cleaned, but otherwise unprocessed. The 40 cases I picked at random all measured less than 0.002 inches of runout to begin with. They were ejected from a C7 and bagged at the range. In theory, the necks are going to be pretty straight, after being fireformed in the rifle.



Here are the results of my little test. Is a sampling of 10 sufficient to draw a conclusion? Sure. It's my test. I can believe (or not believe) anything I want.

From most to least runout - with outside neck diameters included.

1. The loser - The Redding FL sizing die. It averaged 0.004 runout after sizing. Outside case neck measurement - 0.2475 inches



2. The second worst, but not nearly as bad - Hybrid – Redding Body Die and Lee Collet Die – 0.002 runout after sizing. Outside case neck measurement - 0.246 inches



3. The almost winner, AKA the runner up - Lee Loader – 0.0015 runout after sizing. Outside case neck measurement - 0.244 inches.



4. The 2020 Champion - Redding Neck Resizing Die – 0.001 runout after sizing. Outside case neck measurement - 0.247 inches.



So, for kicks, I will shoot 160 cartridges, 40 reloaded using each of the four die sets. I'll load them with identical powder, bullets, OALs, etc. and see if this preliminary measuring means anything.

But first, I loaded up 200 cartridges (198 actually) to fireform in the chamber. I figure it will take awhile to shoot that many out of a single shot!

Nice work - thanks for sharing the data!

I wonder how many will be surprised at the results?

I thought I responded. I believe some of yesterday's posts disappeared.

Many people will be surprised. Quite a few here feel that the only way to get results is to spend as much money as they can, and buy a solution.

If that was the case, Nosler Partitions would win all the shooting competitions and bag all the trophies.

Practice and tenacity win.
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Someone also asked about the test. It was a resizing check only, using the four sets.

Hi Steve. Curious - did all of your resizing dies have a expander spindle in them? I've read somewhere (hint: Muledeer's writings) that the expander can sometimes introduce run-out, especially from being pulled back through the neck after re-sizing.

Expanders almost always increase runout IME.

WRT my little test, the dies were used as they came from the factory. Suffice it to say that the more things that attach to a die/case will all influence the finished product coming out of the die. As I used to say at my reloading clinics, it's pretty hard to screw up a case resized in a Lee Loader. It's just a tube, without and expander, a decapping rod, and a shellholder, all of which influence the operation. They all move a little

Two of the dies did not use an expander - the Lee Loader and the Lee collet die. The other two did - the Redding FL and neck resizing dies. I believe that the runout in the Redding FL die was caused because of the tight fit inside the die. I believe that traditional decapping/expander assys have a negative effect.

My personal observations with die sets caused me to abandon FL dies with expanders years ago when I shot competitively.

When possible, you should use either a bushing die, a collet die or even a Lee Loader. Your choice. Since virtually all of my rifles are bolt actions or single shots, it makes sense. For the levers, I don't care. They are fun or short range hunting guns.

I will be shooting cartridges made using all four methods, and will be using 75 gr. Hornady BTSP Match bullets. It's a small sampling, but it will satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks for the reply - did you happen to check bullet run-out after you seated the bullets too? I've not done much with empty cases, but have been checking bullet run-out with an RCBS tool and correcting them with a Tru-Angle tool to somewhere less than .004 of run-out. It's seemed to help, but then again, I don't have any "benchrest" quality guns, mostly pretty average bolt actions, with a few levers and a couple of military style semi-autos.

Will be waiting to see your results!

I loaded 198 cartridges to fireform the cases for my rifle. I used my hybrid system for all - Lee collet, body die, and Forster seater. These cases are once fired, and I checked half for runout - 0.001 to 0.002.

Once these are fired, I will check the runout coming out of the rifle. It should be almost zero. Starting with these straight cases, I will load 40 of each using the four die sets. I will be checking for case and bullet runout as they are loaded.

The 160 cartridges will go to the range and I will make holes in paper. The groups will be measured and I will declare the winner.

After I post the results, the fun will begin. I'll get advice from the cheap seats. They will have missed that it's a die test and tell me where my problems are, what I did wrong, etc. Welcome to the Campfire.

My guess is the Lee Loader will shoot the tightest, but it will be a fight between it and the Redding NS die. It's all for fun. If you talk to competition shooters, the older ones will tell you about the endless experimentation, chasing the bughole. I can't be bothered anymore. I'm happy with .5 to .75 of an inch @ 100 yd with my varmint rifles, and 1 to 1.5 inches with my game rifles. Playing with loads keeps me out of the bars.