Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Apostle Paul?

Revelations wasn't talking about Paul. Why do you think that?

Have you ever even looked into why the people in Asia turned away from Paul? Because they were heretics.

In Christ or man? yes and no... why does man think he has to add to Christ's teachings? It's the vanity of man that thinks he can improve Christ and it's this vanity that turns many away.

Christ is positive, Paul is negative, Christ is inclusive, Paul is exclusive, Christ is giving, Paul is punishment.

I do not have less understanding of Christ through the Holy Spirit because I do not follow Paul.

Kent

Read Romans 13: 1-6. Do Nero, Caligula, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Obama come to mind? The Jesus I know would not have endorsed this.

I think that a really reading of the Gospels will give a different view of Christ. He kicked butt and took names when dealing with the Jews and all others. Paul’s message is no different than the message of Christ. The Old Testament is non different than the message of the New Testament. Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders that the whole of the Old Testament was about him. Not a different way of salvation. Not an “Esops Fables” and not a chronology of people who had been righteous enough to please God. Genesis to Revelation is about Christ.

I apologize I wasn’t clear in my question.

I was asking if you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, but your answer sounds like that’s a “no”?

At any rate, when I see what I believe to be a contradiction in Scripture I tend to fall back first on a lack of understanding on my part, a cultural sensitivity that sets me apart from the wisdom of God in His word as received therein, and a testimony to my need for continued study.

Christ has many exclusionary teachings that you and I would agree with... like His condemnation of the Pharisees. Likewise Paul has many inclusionary teachings that I assume we’d agree with like His insistence that “there is now neither Greek nor Hebrew; man nor woman, but all are one in Christ” or that a life in submission to Christ results in a life of holiness as encapsulated in the fruit of the Spirit.

At any rate good conversation as always Kent thanks I hope you everyone has a great Friday!

So you think that's talking about Paul? The church was flooded with false teachers. Satan was fighting hard to bring down the church before it got established. False teachers and Judaizers were everywhere sewing discord. Note that 'apostles' and 'liars' are plural. There is no way you can number Paul among them other than your hatred for the man that Jesus handpicked to take his word to them.

All governments commit injustices. The passage doesn't say that God approves of all regimes, but that God allows all regimes. But all governments punish some of the wrong doers too.

Do you think you would be better off under Stalin if you went about robbing, raping and murdering or if you conducted yourself with honor?
I can guarantee that if you went about robbing & murdering under Nero, Nero himself may not get you, but the local governor would see you crucified.

Frankly, I don't think this passage is dealing with grossly unjust regimes. It doesn't apply to Pol Pot or Hitler. But Pol Pot and Hitler weren't much involved in prosecuting murders. Neither was 0bama. It's the local rulers who deal with things like that.

Plus, I don't think it's within the scope of our intelligence to understand Nero or Caligula. Obviously God allowed them to do what they did. We just don't know why. But the passage you cited should make us think seriously before we revolt against any government, no matter how bad it is. For instance, you don't want to end up like Spartacus. As bad as the Romans may have been at the time, Spartacus' rebellion was a huge mistake that cost him and nearly all his followers their lives.

I think you read this one too absolutely and often with the wrong level of governance in mind.

I have distilled my faith down to Christ and the Holy Spirit which has freed me from worldly distractions, spiritually. My reference to inclusion and exclusion is about salvation and Christ's plan/wish for every person. Christ's life example was to not allow the world and it's faults to effect your spirit, excluding earthly issues isn't what I'm talking about.

It may seem to simple to some but Christ was the best at KISS.

Kent

Excellent

Jesus preached his words to the Jews. The Gentiles were entirely different and while the salvation message was the same, they needed different handling. Jesus hand picked Paul for the job. Unless you're a Jew, Jesus sent Paul to YOU.

For you.

If a man showed up today with a different plan of salvation non congruous with that of Jesus and John the Baptist, With an account of encountering Jesus out in the woods somewhere, and a story of being taken to and receiving visions in 3rd heaven I would be leery. Now if Jesus appeared with him and ratified the message and told me "I know I taught for over 3 years but I forgot to tell you folks the main reason I came" , well that would be different.

Probably not

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.

Yes, YOU.

That Paul was a cool dude!

gunner, you can't let yourself get thrown off track, looking at men. We're all flawed, some more than others. And that includes Christians.

You gotta keep your eye on the Lord, the only non-flawed person to ever walk on this Earth.

Follow the Light, don't get blinded by the glare. A laser is focused light, will cut steel. Scattered light is glare, can blind. Scripture zapped around, here and there without Focus can become just that, glare. Stay focused, don't get blind sided by all this.

DF

Which others of Paul's writings only applied to his times?

First Apostle Paul didn't have a different salvation from Jesus. But how 'bout if the claimer did miracles in the name of Jesus? Would that change anything for you?

A parable from RJY66.

One day a certain man setteth out to changeth the oil in his new Ford F-150. A sweet and comely ride it was, adorned with bells and whistles, gleaming paint, and possessing a great beast in the midst of it which could fly as a raptor and roar like the laughter of the almighty.

That same day as the man setteth about his work, his neighbor, who loved him, came about saying howbeit my brother, what project dost thou incline thy hand to this day? I giveth the beast fresh oil this day sayeth the man. Aye, it is meet sayeth the neighbor. Directly, he seeth five measures of syrup, each adorned with the image of an Ethiopian queen called Jemima. He asketh what of the syrup, art thou feeding pancakes to a multitude? Nay saith the man, I feed it to the beast in the midst of the ride. Greatly troubled the friend sayeth, who has bewitched thee? Knowest thou not that the great beast only liveth on the finest 0W-20 synthetic oil from the presses of Mobil? How knowest thou saith the man? The neighbor sayeth unto him where abideth the word of the covenant between thee and Ford....bring it thou forth. The man then entereth into the vestibule and bringeth forth the scroll of the covenant and giveth it to his neighbor. The neighbor taketh the scroll and turned to the place where it saith "use thou only 0w-20 fully synthetic oil blessed by the priests of ILSAC and the scribes of API" and showeth his friend, saying Verily thus saith it.

After reading it, the man saith to his neighbor be ye not vexed. I have in myself innate knowledge that the beast liveth also on syrup. Know ye not that the great Ford dieth 100 years ago and the writers of the covenant are acting of their own accord in his name to trouble they the bretheren? His neighbor sayeth unto him Verily thou doest greatly err. Thy hubris and arrogance hath caused thee to privily divide the words of the covenant and depart from sound teaching and descend thou into folly, ignoring thou the wisdom of both the covenant and our fathers who feedeth not their beasts syrup. The man answer and saith, know thou not the words of the covenant also saith in a certain place that the wheels of the ride if shod with 35 measures of air will give best performance and saith nothing of the feeding of the beast? Yes answereth the neighbor it is meet. Thou do well to neglect neither. For the covenant with the great Ford be not a buffet from which thou mayest pluck a fig or a pomegranate but its whole council must receive meditation and all its works heed so that thou mayest prosper.

Why judgest thou me saith the man? Art thou perfect in all thy ways? What I have determined I have determined and the beast dineth on syrup and not oil because I sayeth it. Go thou thy way before thou triggereth me. The neighbor, saddened, cast his eyes to the earth and saith thou believest neither me nor the words of the covenant, therefore I can be of no service unto thee. I goeth therefore forth to my house to watch the gladiators who vie against one another in the midst of the glowing box. If thou perchance needeth a ride on the morrow sendeth forth me an epistle. It will troubleth me not because thou shall not get far and we remaineth friends.

And he went on his way as he said, pondering in his heart the meaning of the things he had seen, troubled because he knew the great beast in the midst of the ride locketh up before eventide, no longer flying like a raptor or roaring like the laugh of the almighty. How long would his friend walketh to and fro on the face of the earth because of his folly? Would it be forever or only for a time? What manner of sorcery preventeth his simple message from getting through? He knoweth not the answer.

RJY66: You rival Shakespeare. That was good. Did you author that yourself?