Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 308 verses the 300 win mag

Understood battue:

I'm not speaking for anyone else. I try to be AS prepared AS possible.

There have been a few Xs ( last year was one ) that a Buck I WANTED didn't even give me time to shoulder my rifle.

Jerry

That I understand, the same thing happens often to those that still hunt or jump them close.

Not exactly our experience re VII. We have watched elk for hours (at 300 to 600 yards) before taking a shot, on multiple occasions. As a general rule, we've also found that the further away the elk are, the more time you have.

All my scoped rifles are MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target. For the bolt rifles it usually works out between 250 yards and a little over 300 yards, depending on the cartridge and specific load used. That generally sets me up for shots to 400 without adjusting anything except holdover. Beyond 400 I use the BDC reticle in my scopes, as only one (my .257 Roberts) has a vertical turret adjustment. The BDC reticles have been adequate for me to hit clay pigeons at 600 with a variety of rifles, including my .257 Roberts, 6.5-06AI, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, multiple .30-06, .300WM and .338WM. Don't always get a hit - and in fact usually get a miss with most of the rifles, but the misses are not by much and hit rates have been as high as 75-80%. The great thing about BDC reticles is, with a little practice at 300-600 yards, they are more than accurate enough for antelope to elk - and they are fast.

That said, I do plan for more turrets in the future, but in combination with BDC reticles as with my Roberts. And like you , I haven't found my .300WM to be necessary for any shot I've ever taken. But the first rifles I grab for elk season tend to be are my 7mm RM, .300WM and .338WM.

jwall, I know you're not debating with me, so maybe you can explain how this all works to some of the other guys. At 500 yards where you KNOW the drop in trajectory, do you think holdover is just as good as matching your POA with your POI? In fact, do you think they're even close? Do you routinely shoot big game animals at 500 yards using holdover?

Second, you made the point that using a rangefinder and such takes time for guys who use turrets, yet you've found a way to use your rangefinder before the game shows up. How does that work, and why can't a guy twisting turrets also "scan the OPEN area BEFORE" the game is seen? Is there something about twisting turrets that prevents that??

Thanks!!

This 500 yd crap is just that, crap. Should you get a shot exactly at 500 yds, just imagine your out hunting and get a 500yd shot. No problem, just use the appropriate gizmo in your scope, hold right on and in theory drop the animal. Good for you. How many shots do you think you'll get at exactly 500yds? What if it's 533 yds and you don't know it? Let's say its 533yds and you know it because of your range finder. So how much hold over with the right 500 yds hash mark in your scope to cover the drop from 500 yds to 533yds? Anybody go that right off the top of their head? Between 500 aand 533 yds, how far will your bullet drop? How about between 458yds and 500yds or maybe 400 and 458 yds? All the gizmos in the world won't help you much at the in between ranges! Practiced sniper's are simply that, well practiced sniper's, damn few hunter's are in that class!

You might notice that bad word holder has showed up with your ultra modern expensive scope. Will your $2000 Night Force tell you what you need at 533 yds?

My ballistic program, verified and printed out and taped to my stock will. Even w/ my cheapo SS 3-9 I can dial it or use the reticle. It is not really hard at all. finding the critters can be hard, and getting a position that is steady enough to make that shot can be hard too.


mike r

With todays range finders, quality bullets / powders, ballistics calculators, scopes The shots mentioned above are not hard for guys who practice on regular basis out to those ranges. While BDCs work great if you know your rifle. I wanted more precision and I have slowly moved away from them and either have a custom CDS dial or have my charts handy to dial. I practice to 600 yards on 8" gong and there are times I am 3 for 3 and times 1 for 3. So, I know my limits and obviously conditions in the filed have to taken into consideration.

Guys or gals who only shoot once a year to make sure their rifles is sighted in at 100 yards do not apply to this longer range stuff. And it really is their responsibility to make judgement.
Just like it's your call not to make long distance shots.

I've been shooting my 9 mil & 40 SW so I haven't been here in a while.

I actually HAD most of my response typed and I hit something and my screen ENLARGED and I couldn't move it... so I'll
try again.

FIRST and Most important answer is NO I don't routinely shoot WT at 500 yds. I have killed WT AT 400 yds using MY MPBR using 270 Win, 7 RM, & 300 WM.
I've SEEN a few WT at 500 yds but they were moving thru a cutover with sagegrass, pine and oak regrowth and would NOT shoot. I never had one in the area of 500 yds in the clear long enuff to justify attempting a shot.

I've been using 400 yd MPBR since the 80s so I'm familiar and confident with it.
Using 270 W, 130 HSP @ 3100 fps and MY MPBR at 500 yds the drop is +/- 25".
I routinely use my 7 RM & 300 WM which shoots similar BC at HIGHER velocity than the 270.

An adult Bull Elk (which this thread discusses) is deeper from spine to sternum than 24" so hold OVER is minimal.
By OVER I mean above the spine.

Also from 400--500 yds I'm NOT trying to hit a 4 or 5 " target. Spine to Brisket is much larger.
So my POI has several INCHES in which to land.

I would NOT argue that Ranging & Turrets are less accurate. Certainly they SHOULD be MORE exact, NO question.
And YES guys who use LRF and Turrets sure can scan an area and mark landmarks AHEAD of time WHEN there is time.

I Still Hunt only - no stands - and I'd expect to hunt similarly in Mule Deer/Elk territory.

** Important ** I was addressing still hunting WHEN opportunities DON'T give you much or any time for adjustments.
That happens to ALL hunters in many situations. With a MPBR of 400 yds. NO time is needed to decipher trajectory.

Last year this guy showed up ONCE during our modern gun season,,



This pic was taken during our Antlerless ONLY season.
During Buck season WE saw each other at the SAME time at twice the distance >>> he EXITED before I could shoulder my rifle.

I have Read & RE Read this post and I hope I've answered your questions.

I will not argue with anyone about MY MPBR. I've been using it @ 40 years.

IF I didn't answer a question, I'd try again.

Jerry

Don –

It doesn’t make any difference to me if people use BDC reticles or turrets or both. I have one rifle with a vertical turret but it also has a BDC scope. With that rifle I’ve used both, depending on the situation.

While I can’t speak for jwall, your questions are good. I verify the drops in 100 yard increments out to 600 yards, both for the BDC reticles and the turret. Once confirmed I print out the drop tables in 25-yard increments and make a diagram of where the 100-yard increments are in the reticle (they rarely match up exactly with the reticle marks). I also load the data into my ballistic app on my phone so I can adjust the data in the field for altitude. I use a laser in the field, so I know the ranges fairly accurately.

We spend a lot of time sitting, waiting and glassing. When we sit we use the lasers, noting the range to various landmarks. I carry a tripod and set it up whenever we sit. When animals come into view we already have a pretty good idea of their range and often have no need for an additional range check. When stalking game we normally have no need of the lasers or anything but the center crosshairs because the ranges tend to be 300 or under - and usually far less.

So what happens when we have a tweener shot at longer ranges? Not really a problem. You ask about 533 yards as an example. At that range you more than likely have plenty of time to laser, check your range card, set up a bipod/tripod, turn turrets if you have them and/or use your BDC reticle. Worst case with the BDC on my .300WM or .338WM, the difference in drop between 533 and 525 or 550 is about 2.0” to 2.5”, up or down depending on which range card entry is used. At 588 yards the difference is about 3” to 4” from 575 or 600 yards. You can easily use the BDC and adjust a couple inches up or down for the tweener shots. Do that and you shouldn’t be off more than a couple inches at most.

I used exactly that procedure taking my longest shot ever a few years back. I was sitting in an impromptu blind made of sage in open country. I had about 45 minutes to laser the ground around me and paid special attention to 400 to 600 yards. When elk did come in they were bunched up, no shot, and when a cow finally separated I didn’t have any time to laser it or check my range card – but I knew the range was pretty close to 500 yards from the previous lasering. One shot using the BDC dropped it. I later measured the range as 487 yards. Elapsed time from when the elk appeared to when I took the shot was measured in minutes. I was following the elk with the scope as they passed by and the range increased. From the time the cow separated to the time I fired was maybe 5 seconds, probably less. The BDC let me make the shot. Not sure I could have if I had to fiddle with a turret.

Thanks guys, lots of good info.

Dre, using the distance that you can consistently hit an 8"plate as your personal standard for shooting critters will keep you honest... and humble. And remind you of the affect of wind.


mike r

Hunt them hump backed anaconda necked sum beaches with a bear super grizzly 50 pound recurve.

When you get a 300 savage in yer hand.............you swear u got a freakin cannon!

Jesus Christ I’ve seen it all... smokepole has smoked waaay too much pole..

Twenty-two pages with no homosexual references, until your first post.

Nice work, Naomi.

11 pages of you being a dick, just to be a dick, not surprisingly though, it's your mo, and your not even really good at it... Great work being a cuunt to Jerry as well, that speaks volumes. Take your mood stabilizer, get some more rest, or don't post drunk.

Btw, since I've killed probably 3x or better elk than you, I'd 300 mag everytime. That's from someone who's done some stunt shooting too.

PNW Mafia is back 😂😎

LOL, coming from you, saying I'm being a dick, that does call for some self-reflection since you wrote the book on being a dick. Kindly point out where I was wrong. And then go get your moderator badge renewed. PS, to jerry, my apologies for being a dick.



Show me anywhere I said people shouldn't use a .300 WM or it's not a fine elk cartrirdge. And quit being a dick, implying I said something I didn't.

If you’ll pay attention, I’m a dick to folks that are [bleep]. Fuuck you’ll argue if I tell you it’s raining here in Lewis county for Christ sakes.

😂😂 where’s Fredrick??