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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by JMR40
Lets look at the lineage of the rifle. They started life as the Raptor rifle company back in the 1990's. They were considered pure junk and the company quickly folded. Charter Arms bought the rights to produce the rifle for a few years and once again they were considered a joke. Charter Arms stopped making them and a few years later Mossberg buys the rights to produce the same rifle, they change the name and it is suddenly a quality rifle? I think not.

https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/46-bo...mera-land/11108-raptor-arms-comapny.html

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/43106

https://gunvalues.gundigest.com/raptor-arms-co/9956/raptor-bolt-action-rifle/

To be fair I've not shot any of the 3 versions, but have handled them in gun shops. I'd put them in the same class as the Remingtoin 710 or 770.

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Not everybody can afford a $3000.00 rifle with a $1500.00 scope. MOA is MOA no matter what shoots it.


I agree 100%. But there are a lot better options than the Mossberg selling for under $500 and I while the scopes I prefer are in the $400-$500 range, I'd not feel handicapped with a lot of $200 scopes



You don't have a clue what a Patriot rifle is. Yet that never stops you. It never prevents you from showing your ass.


BINGO! Refuse to yield to rifle Snobs! Long live the MOA bargain rifle! Price tags be damned!

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The local Bi-Mart has some rather attractive prices for a Patriot in 6.5 PRC...Both the plain version and the fancier camo cerakote model.. I don't really need one but have been thinking on it.. Just to many hit or miss reviews..Seems like it is a gamble..

But I do have a extra scope so....

Hmmmm??

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Originally Posted by reivertom
Not everybody can afford a $3000.00 rifle with a $1500.00 scope. MOA is MOA no matter what shoots it.

I know a lot of people that have money to burn but still look for a good deal. My son in law is the county sheriff here and he can afford most anything within reason and he has one and loves it. It is a bit light but a lot of people look for a light rifle, especially if you're hunting in the high country and have to walk a ways, the lighter the better.


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Originally Posted by noKnees
For rifles in the 375 class I don't think its MOA accuracy that is the most desired quality. Fit, shoot ability, field accuracy and reliability are at least as important as on the bench accuracy fora 375. An inexpensive accurate rifle is great for shooting whitetails, but most things that folks are going to shoot with a 375 have a price tag in the thousands if not tens of thousands, even if you don't pay much to hunt them for most of us the opportunity comes only a few times in a lifetime.. In some cases there is a risk/smafety concern as well. For that type of hunting Id rather start with a rifle model well thought of and then put my rifle through some good use to insure function. It doesn't take $3000 to do that, lots of good model 70's, Mausers, Rugers and more for only a few hundred more than the Mossberg.

Now if you just want a rifle to shoot your fillings and retinas loose on the cheap, well then a mossberg is just the thing.

I remember it wasn't too many years ago Savage was thought of like that. Now days they're well respected rifles. And they'll out shoot a lot of much more expensive rifles. And the Savage 110 is basically the same rifle it was 50 years ago.

Last edited by Filaman; 02/20/20.

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Savage has a good reputation for "deer rifles" but their large caliber rifles have pretty much flopped. Much of this may be to snobbery but the larger caliber rifles have had some issues with staying together.

My personal experience with a Savage 116 in 375 H&H mag has been thus:

The Accu-Trigger itself and safety froze up and neither would not move for any reason. Luckily the safety froze in the fire position as one could still work the bolt and unload the gun. I say fortunately as the firing pin released when I removed the stock. Some small, flimsy metal part bent due to recoil. I fixed the problem with a Timney trigger.

The front and rear sights fell off due to recoil once each. Different sights were attached by my gunsmith.

Scope base screws sheared off due to recoil, redrilled and tapped to larger screw.

The stock is very light and flimsy with a poor recoil pad. Found a better pad that fit more or less and filled the stock with foam to deaden the plastic drum noise somewhat. It still recoils a fair bit, even with factory loads.

Finding a better stock is difficult, at least for reasonable money. The bolt spacing seems a little longer than other long actions as well as the blind magazine well looking to be long. With a normal long action stock, opening the magazine well does not appear to leave much wood around the front screw to handle recoil.

It is very accurate, even with the poor stock, at 100 yards it would put a full magazine inside an 1.5" of whatever factory load I ran through it. It does not like 250 gr Sierra bullets at any speed though.

As I recall, these had a shelf price of $550-600 in the early 2000s. I picked mine up for half that in 2006 as the shop wanted it gone. At that price I was willing to gamble on it. It was worth what I paid for it but to fix the problems I had one could easily have picked up a better choice by Winchester, CZ, Ruger, Remington, or any number of other makes and still be able to get most of thier initial investment back.

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Originally Posted by Filaman



I remember it wasn't too many years ago Savage was thought of like that.

Now days they're well respected rifles. ? ? ?

And they'll out shoot a lot of much more expensive rifles. And the Savage 110 is basically the same rifle it was 50 years ago.


REALLY ?

MMV !

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I've owned at least a couple of Savages, one in .223 Rem and the other in .300 Win Mag -- which was slightly used and an M111 with a cheap Readfield scope that didn't quite last through my first session with it at the range shooting handloads. I replaced that with a Bushnell 3 - 9 x 40.

That was my last of eight .300 Win Mags, and the most accurate. It didn't fall apart though it digested max Nosler loads at about their recorded fps. I recommended a similar used one to a young friend who wanted to hunt bear with me. It was his first BIG rifle at age 19 and he shot the handloads very well that I made for it, killing his first bear with a single shot through the lungs. A bang flop. But he was 6'-5" and 300 lbs. I was 5'-9" and 190 lbs.

I could easily live with a .300 Win Mag in a Savage as my only big game rifle. But my favorite rifles are quite a bit larger in bore size. My favorite today is a Ruger No.1 in .458 Win Mag shooting handloads of anything from 300gr TSX's to 450gr TSX's, at 2944 fps/5773 ft-lbs (avg.) for the 300s to 2400 fps/5755 ft-lbs for the 450s. Yes, and it will do 2300 fps easily from 500s, all seated long. My second favorite is a 9.3 x 62 handloaded with either the 286 Nosler Part. or the 250gr AccuBond.

I turned 84 a few days before 2020.

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Originally Posted by CZ550
I've owned at least a couple of Savages, one in .223 Rem and the other in .300 Win Mag -- which was slightly used and an M111 with a cheap Readfield scope that didn't quite last through my first session with it at the range shooting handloads. I replaced that with a Bushnell 3 - 9 x 40.

That was my last of eight .300 Win Mags, and the most accurate. It didn't fall apart though it digested max Nosler loads at about their recorded fps. I recommended a similar used one to a young friend who wanted to hunt bear with me. It was his first BIG rifle at age 19 and he shot the handloads very well that I made for it, killing his first bear with a single shot through the lungs. A bang flop. But he was 6'-5" and 300 lbs. I was 5'-9" and 190 lbs.

I could easily live with a .300 Win Mag in a Savage as my only big game rifle. But my favorite rifles are quite a bit larger in bore size. My favorite today is a Ruger No.1 in .458 Win Mag shooting handloads of anything from 300gr TSX's to 450gr TSX's, at 2944 fps/5773 ft-lbs (avg.) for the 300s to 2400 fps/5755 ft-lbs for the 450s. Yes, and it will do 2300 fps easily from 500s, all seated long. My second favorite is a 9.3 x 62 handloaded with either the 286 Nosler Part. or the 250gr AccuBond.

I turned 84 a few days before 2020.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


At 84 there is no way you can handle the .300 Win Mag. Reason I know that is because I read the Campfire and have learned that nobody can handle .300 magnums. We all need Creedmoors and 7mm-08's if we're to hit anything. Nice try though.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Ron Spomers buddy took a Brown Bear with his Mossberg Patriot in .338 WM. So there are people who will buy these type rifles for serious hunts.


Ron Spomer's buddy probably worked for Mossberg.

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Originally Posted by AB2506
Originally Posted by moosemike
Ron Spomers buddy took a Brown Bear with his Mossberg Patriot in .338 WM. So there are people who will buy these type rifles for serious hunts.


Ron Spomer's buddy probably worked for Mossberg.


https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/mossberg-patriot-vs-brown-bear/

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by AB2506
Originally Posted by moosemike
Ron Spomers buddy took a Brown Bear with his Mossberg Patriot in .338 WM. So there are people who will buy these type rifles for serious hunts.


Ron Spomer's buddy probably worked for Mossberg.


https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/mossberg-patriot-vs-brown-bear/


Tom Claycomb is an industry writer. It was likely an assignment to use the Mossberg. If you can afford a full price Brown bear hunt, you aren't hunting with a bargain basement rifle, no matter if you treat it worse than Spomer does a hammer.

You can like your 300WM Patriot, but don't be so defensive. How is a Patriot different than the Mossberg 4x4? Weren't there stories about 4x4s blowing apart? When the Patriot came out, I never read if it was a different action than the 4x4. Regardless, the 4x4 problems must have been fixed because the Patriot has had much better reviews. I think Boddington has hunted with one, but that was an assignment.

Again, on a trip like that, you buy the best gear you can afford. A $400 dangerous game rifle isn't it.

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Originally Posted by AB2506
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by AB2506
Originally Posted by moosemike
Ron Spomers buddy took a Brown Bear with his Mossberg Patriot in .338 WM. So there are people who will buy these type rifles for serious hunts.


Ron Spomer's buddy probably worked for Mossberg.


https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/mossberg-patriot-vs-brown-bear/


Tom Claycomb is an industry writer. It was likely an assignment to use the Mossberg. If you can afford a full price Brown bear hunt, you aren't hunting with a bargain basement rifle, no matter if you treat it worse than Spomer does a hammer.

You can like your 300WM Patriot, but don't be so defensive. How is a Patriot different than the Mossberg 4x4? Weren't there stories about 4x4s blowing apart? When the Patriot came out, I never read if it was a different action than the 4x4. Regardless, the 4x4 problems must have been fixed because the Patriot has had much better reviews. I think Boddington has hunted with one, but that was an assignment.

Again, on a trip like that, you buy the best gear you can afford. A $400 dangerous game rifle isn't it.



I didn't like my .300 WM Patriot. I sent it down the road pretty quick. Dang thing kicked worse than the .340 Weatherby I have now.
The Patriot is not a variant of the 4x4. It's a new design for Mossberg and gets very good reviews. I dont currently own one.

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The last combo I'd take on a $12K+ brown bear hunt would be a Mossberg rifle and a Leupold scope.

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Originally Posted by Ghostman
The last combo I'd take on a $12K+ brown bear hunt would be a Mossberg rifle and a Leupold scope.


Oh the Leupold scope wouldn't bother me. The rifle would be a Weatherby, Browning, Ruger, or Winchester though.

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Originally Posted by Ghostman
The last combo I'd take on a $12K+ brown bear hunt would be a Mossberg rifle and a Leupold scope.


WOW, how the mighty are fallen.

I had a VX III in 2.5-8X40 (? think that’s right) a LONG time ago. It’s the only Leu.
that I ever had. WAS a great scope.

I’m sorry for their problems whatever the cause(s).

We NEED good reliable equipment.

Jerry


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I only run Leupold scopes and have had no issues except for a VXIII 2.5-8×36 that I bought from a friend who had dumped his rifle on ice and broke the elevation turret. It was replaced, but a spring was faulty and the group would shift slightly. The warranty depot is 30 miles down the road. The spring was replaced.

I have VX3 2.5-8x36 on a 6lb Kimber Montana 300WSM. I've taken that rifle to Africa twice and had no issues with the scope. Except for a Redfield Golden 5star on my slug barrel, all my scopes are Leupold, mostly VXIII or VX3, some VX2. Total confidence, but then I'm not a turret twister.

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Was in two gunshops over the last few days. Sad to say, nothing I saw got the money in my pocket "jumping", as the China Doll likes to say. The larger shop had bunches of econo-rifles in the rack. I didn't pick up one. I did look over a couple of used leverguns and an H&R trapdoor carbine. I know many of those rifles are good shooters, but they just don't move me. In particular, the stocks with molded-in trigger guards look flimsey, and the one example I owned briefly, a Ruger American rimfire, actually arrived at my dealer with the guard broken off in transit. Ruger replaced the stock quickly, but it's easy to imagine that happening in the field. At least ones with separate plastic "bottom metal" are easy to repair, and there are metal aftermarket parts for some others like Tikkas and Howa Minis.

As to the Mossberg, one YouTube video pointed out that the right-side rail is very thin and bumping it while out of the stock could easily bend it enough to render the rifle inoperative. A good knock with it assembled might do the same thing. The Patriot is IMO, the best-looking one they've ever made, which is something I suppose. I just can't see myself buying one for serious work; range toy, truck gun, disposable varminter, -possibly.


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Originally Posted by Ghostman
The last combo I'd take on a $12K+ brown bear hunt would be a Mossberg rifle and a Leupold scope.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Do tell.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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headed to Alaska in 6 weeks: 5th trip up there and 3rd to Kodiak: taking 52'vintage M70 with Leupold scope. Wouldn't really consider anything else.

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OK this is long but I think I covered all your problems with the Savage Platform. It may seem like I beat some parts to death but I was only trying to be specific.

I'm not surprised as to your experience. In my post above when I said the Savage too was once looked upon as a second class rifle, I was going by what I had learned of Savage from my 7 Rem. Mag. Not a real big bore. But I've heard some horror stories about the Savage Accutrigger. I'm afraid that knowing what I do now about the Accutrigger, if I would have bought a Savage with one of those I would have probably eventually taken it off and put a Timney or Rifle Basix on it, in fact I might have done it right out of the box.

That's what I did when I bought my used 110 off a Gun Broker auction. I loved the rifle but that cheap ass trigger had to go. I put a Rifle Basix on it and haven't looked back since. It wasn't an Accutrigger but I felt the standard trigger, which it was, also was very lacking and heavy to boot and I wasn't able to adjust it lighter safely. It's a simple design but maybe a bit too simple. The basic Savage Trigger group is not my favorite aspect of Savage. The Rifle Basix cured that and made it the most accurate rifle I own.

Savage makes great small and medium bore guns but if I want a Large Bore, I wouldn't trust that Accutrigger AND I'm not a fan of their basic trigger group either. I wouldn't worry about a Remington, Winchester, Ruger or some other trigger designs but I just don't have a lot of faith in the Savage Accutrigger OR their basic trigger group and that would be one of my primary improvements to one is replacing it with a solid aftermarket design. The Accutrigger seems like a delicate part for a hard recoiler it seems to me and the standard trigger is too simple and rudimentary for a safe adjustable trigger group. But the rest of the Savage is very solid. Their barrel nut which permits easy head spacing on the assembly line and their floating bolt head make for a very accurate rifle right out of the box.

Other than the factory triggers offered, I have no problem with a Savage rifle. I also think, from my experiences with Mossbergs, that they would also fill the bill. They are a solid design. Maybe they're not a name used by jet set hunters, but for us blue collar type's, for my part anyway, they're more than adequate.

As for the scope base screws shearing off your Savage, now that's not a Savage specific problem. That can and has occurred with several scope mount bolts that hold the bases onto the receiver with other rifles other than Savage that used two screws holding the bases . It depends on the size and weight of the scope too. The inertia developed on a hard recoiling shot, especially with a larger heavier scope, can shear some two screw set ups off.

However, I believe its more due to the toughness of the screws used than the number of screws used. I've got a couple of hard recoilers that utilize good Leupold bases and screws and have never had a problem with the basic two screw set up. But some of the cheaper hardware you pick up at Wally World might not be up to the task.

I had a similar problem with my 7 mag. Although it didn't shear off from recoil, one of the cross bolts that held the claw mount to the base mount broke, I think caused from over tightening. But the bottom line there I suspect was cheap hardware. I doubt that a better quality bolt would have broken.

As for your sights falling off you didn't state whether the bolts broke or they just got loose. If they broke off look at my statement of dealing with broken base mount bolts. It could be a common problem if they broke off. If they just got loose, you might just use some sort of thread lock.

As for the stock, I know that the bolt spacing was changed when Savage did some modifications to the action a few years back. But if you want an aftermarket stock you have to be specific when ordering one. There should be correct aftermarket stocks made for your rifle. But you have to be specific when ordering.

Many brands of rifles make synthetic stocks that are thin and tinny sounding, including Remington for one. I too used spray foam to fill the voids inside two Remington synthetic stocks. As for recoil pads, Ruger has sold many rifles with a thin hockey puck recoil pad that did little to soften recoil and as far as I can see, their only real purpose was to insure the rifle wouldn't slip and fall over when stood against the wall. It's not uncommon to have to change recoil pads on new rifles. I still stand by my statement that Savage overall, other than their trigger group, is a solid platform and so is the Mossberg.


Last edited by Filaman; 02/22/20.

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