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The corner crossing should probably move to its own thread but-


The argument is-
Terms Used In Montana Code 45-6-203
(b) enters or remains unlawfully in or upon the premises of another. (2) A person convicted of the offense of criminal trespass to property shall be fined not to exceed $500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for any term not to exceed 6 months, or both.

The argument goes-
If you put a quarter on the ground with 4 lines moving out from the center point. And you step over the diagonals, parts of your body enters the adjacent squares.

Predictably, if the Court rules that entering someone’s property is ok, then that raises a takings argument.

“The Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution includes a provision known as the Takings Clause, which states that "private property [shall not] be taken for public use, without just compensation." While the Fifth Amendment by itself only applies to actions by the federal government, the Fourteenth Amendment ...”

Onx maps is purportedly cataloging how many corners lock land.

A popular maxim in regards to this concept is, “Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos” which basically translates to: “whoever owns the soil, holds title all the way up to the heavens and down to the depths of hell“.

Split estates and air traffic not withstanding and what I was referring to above. How close to the ground can aircraft fly in sparsely populated areas and not be trespassing?

KRAKMT- where would "effective posting" need to be, relative to the corners, to meet the requirements in said statute?

Same way I feel, exactly. But predictably the same guys keep jumping into these discussions, taking a detour, have all the answers . . . and turn it into a pissing match.

Technically, hunting requires permission. So posting doesn’t apply to hunting situations.

Trespassing without hunting-
(2) To provide for effective posting of private land through which the public has no right-of-way, the notice provided for in subsection (1) must satisfy the following requirements:

(a) notice must be placed on a post, structure, or natural object by marking it with written notice or with not less than 50 square inches of fluorescent orange paint, except that when metal fenceposts are used, the entire post must be painted; and

(b) the notice described in subsection (2)(a) must be placed at each outer gate and normal point of access to the property, including both sides of a water body crossing the property wherever the water body intersects an outer boundary line.

(3) To provide for effective posting of private land through which or along which the public has an unfenced right-of-way by means of a public road, a landowner shall:

(a) place a conspicuous sign no closer than 30 feet of the centerline of the roadway where it enters the private land, stating words substantially similar to "PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO TRESPASSING OFF ROAD NEXT ___ MILES"; or

(b) place notice, as described in subsection (2)(a), no closer than 30 feet of the centerline of the roadway at regular intervals of not less than one-fourth mile along the roadway where it borders unfenced private land, except that orange markings may not be placed on posts where the public roadway enters the private land.

(4) If property has been posted in substantial compliance with subsection (2) or (3), it is considered closed to public access unless explicit permission to enter is given by the landowner or the landowner's authorized agent.

Air traffic is often cited, but technically the feds have the authority to regulate air space not necessarily own it. It is similar to someone owning a street in a city. You own the land, often get taxed for it, can’t really do anything with it, but you own it.
The faa recently got slapped for attempting to regulate non navigable airspace. Lots of fighting going on in that arena.

The new heavy lift drones will become an interesting twist on airspace.
Imagine plotting your course to the durfees from a bluff of blm land, crawl into the payload hold and be dropped off on a roadway inside the landlocked piece of property.
The drone returns to its transport back at the bluff to await your signal to return for your downed elk.

The Steve Rinella Controversy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81KHGx6Crvk

Steve Rinella Meateater Controversy Follow Up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rcN2ppbfs4

Book was a good read.

KRAKMT

Thanks for the clear outline of the issues. Definitely agree it deserves its own thread..
And can see a root in fences, I.e., someone squeezing between two checkerboard fences eventually loosens the posts...

Something else that could use its con thread.
Re: drones, I posted in another thread about a writer who had a drone visit while hunting with the land owner. If someone is seeking game on your land, or trying to disrupt a hunt I would argue it is trespassing..but as I said, another thread...

Thanks again for the outline

Often fences will be continuous, without any corner or special bracing.
And more often the fence is a few feet off of the geomarker, so where you are crossing may be entirely across someone’s property.
Each corner is pretty unique.
It will be interesting what onx identifies.
People spend lots of time geocacheing, a publication of photos of the restricted corners would be very helpful in moving away from the theoretical.

No, I haven't. I'm just an average Joe that looks at a situation and forms an opinion based on a man's actions.
I've seen Meateater and have always been unimpressed; but when I saw that Rinella sold out to Cernin I was disappointed.
Sure, money is the bottom line for many, but not for all of us. Some principles shouldn't be for sale.

I'm not trying to sound sanctimonious, I'm just tired of men compromising the important things for the almighty dollar.

He hasn't compromised anything. He retained 100% of content control.

He is the best thing for the 2A in media right now. Pushing hunting into a positive light will do nothing but benefit the 2A and us who love it.

I will turn this around to its natural position. By not supporting meateater, you are not supporting the largest push for gun rights in this day and age.

I would not agree with that at all. I think he puts hunting in a positive light for many people who are on the fence and willing to listen to his message, but that doesn't equate to a large push for gun rights. Many in his audience would happily support an "assault weapons" ban and other "common sense gun laws."

Actually it's more of a legal gray area that one would have to fight in court.

That is exactly right.

It's amazing to me how people can twist and turn right and wrong to fit their narrative. Cernin is THE ENEMY to 2A supporters.

Have watched him for years, good stuff...more down to earth and realistic than most. Also read one of his books...that was good too.

JFC
Bunch of stupid millennials.
Rinella sure has sucked them into his crap. Just another BHA lefty.
My sons thought he was something special until I set them straight.

Exactly what I was thinking when I watched that crap.

It doesn't matter that he retained the rights. To be honest it doesn't even bother me that he took money from Cernin. Not something I would have done, but I don't sell out. There are so many holes in the video's but some people do not think, do not ask questions, and can not grasp what they see and hear. I am not here to be anyone else's critical thinker.

I'll disagree 100% with this. I am in an industry with a lot of non hunters who have no interest in gun rights. These people universally are very interested in meateater though and through this conduit, see a reason for gun rights.

You and I understand that the 2A isn't about hunting, but they don't and never will. And meateater is a HUGE avenue to move these individuals to our side. Maybe most don't want to hold hands with those groups. I think that's a mistake, because they will overwhelm the rest of us, and are damn close to doing it already. We are a dying breed. We are going to need some who don't look like us or act like us to come to our side.

If y'all keep on driving stakes between those of us who agree on 98%, we will definitely be out voted.