Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Barnes bullet... are you completely sold?

Scenarshooter, the most expiereanced and accomplished hunter on this thread doesn't trust them. There are reasons for this.

I did not read the entire thread, but JJHack is sold on the TSX out of the plain ol' 06 (IIRC).

He's been involved in taking more critters than most on this board.

Every bullet manufacturer, Every Rifle manufacturer, Every car manufacturer, etc etc........

Continues to offer new products and developments,

It's called increased revenue and growth.

Business 101.

I'll take John 55's experience as extensive. I know this for a fact.

I think there is some truth to this.
Went out to shoot and bought some federal monos with out a tip from Walmart. Found a pieces of 4x6 and Shot through the 6” width. I’ll just say I was expecting much bigger exit hole. It looked more like it penciled through.

This might have been the anomaly or what’s said above Is true.
All I know every animal I’ve have shot with ttsx the results are excellent. Massive damage and penetration.

Only gripe about barnes is they are expensive. But I’m fortunate my 270 shoots 140 sst same poi as the 130 ttsx so it’s cheap to practice all year long.

No truth to it IME. Shoot them in a dry media and get back to us.

Or it's called fixing bugs. No one can objectively say the first three generations of Barnes monos have issues.

Bwalker
These were not barnes. They were federal shock copper

Matter not. Neither requires fluid to make them expand.

Guess the folks at Barnes either don’t know their product, are liars, or someone on the Fire doesn’t know sheit from Shinola. You choose...

From Barnes website FAQ:
Will TSX Bullets shoot through deer-sized game?
Yes, in most instances TSX Bullets will completely penetrate deer-sized game. Hydraulic pressure causes TSX Bullets to open as soon as they strike tissue. TSX Bullets are known for their superb penetration. Even when they penetrate completely through game, these bullets create a very large wound channel and cause massive shock to the animal’s system. These amazing all-copper bullets live up their promise of “more one-shot kills”.

Do TSX Bullets always expand on game?
Because our TSX Bullets are solid copper and have a specially engineered nose cavity, it is nearly impossible for them not to expand. The cavity opens up as soon as hydraulic pressure is applied to the nose cavity. Once the bullet strikes flesh, it immediately opens, creating four razor-sharp petals that slice through tissue. Ballistic tests in gelatin show good bullet expansion within the first inch of penetration.

Happy Trails

I shot a bunch of original Barnes X bullets and found expansion to be inconsistent, even at 7mm RM velocities. I quit using them as a result. TSX were very accurate in every rifle I tried them in but I decided not to use them on game so have no experience there. Have been using the tipped X bullets (MRX, TTSX and LRX) since they first came out and have been impressed with the wound channels.

I really wanted the first generation Barnes X bullets to work, but they didn't work reliably. I dropped a coyote at 75 yards or so with no visible entrance or exit wound. Another had a softball sized hole. One antelope took three shots total with a 160g X bullet. It laid down after the first two but kept its head up as if sunning itself. We circled around and the third round, from another angle, took part of the heart and put the unfortunate animal out of its misery. For me, that kind of performance indicated a definite "problem" with the X bullet design.

The third generation MRX and fourth generation TTSX and LRX have worked reliably, no problems encountered - no signs of failure to expand in over 14 years of use by my hunt group, coyotes and antelope to elk

How many instances of poor expansion did you experience? I would be interested to hear about them, if you're willing.

I also used a lot of original X bullets, and never experienced anything like that, though I am aware that there are many people who did experience sub-par performance with that bullet. I did shoot a Pronghorn with a 160gr X from the 7RM, just as you did, on a hard-quartering shot. The bullet entered the onside shoulder/brisket intersection and exited the offside near the tail. The buck had the same reaction as yours did, dropping to the ground but keeping its head up. Another shot to the neck ended it. When I opened the pronghorn up, however, I found that the quartering bullet had expanded and done plenty of damage. The old buck was just a little tougher than most, I guess.

Again, it's totally normal for companies to make adjustments to existing designs and manufacturing processes to try to improve performance. The PT has undergone different methods of making the jackets, different longitudinal placement of the partition, different jacket thickness profiles, different lead alloys (IIRC), etc, to try to optimize performance. This is a good thing. The original X bullet, like the original PT, the original automobile, and even the original toothbrush, was a good albeit imperfect design. Subsequent modifications after inception have improved performance in all of these cases.

Jordan -
Most of my testing was done on coyotes because the X bullet was new to me and I had read about failures to expand. I mentioned the two coyote examples that stick in my head, but there were others that had me doubting the reliability of the X bullet. About that same time Dad gave me his .22-250 and I quit using the 7mm RM for coyotes.

The antelope was the first and last big game animal where I used the X bullet - it shouldn't have taken three through the chest to put it down for good. After the experience with the antelope I went back to the 160g Grand Slam that had served me well for 20+ years with no failures. Now, with 14 years experience with the MRX/TTSX/LRX, my group has no complaints.

Some people contend you need to shoot a lot of animals to determine if a bullet is reliable or not. I say nuts to that. When a handful of experiences result in a high failure rate (failure to perform as desired), that is enough for me to take a different route. I've had no issues with MRX/TTSX/LRX, AccuBond, North Fork SS/SS-HP, Grand Slam and only one with regular cup-and-core bullets.

Jordan, that's disingenuous. The partition worked perfectly from day one. Subsequent changes were to facilitate manufacturing, improve ballistic performance, etc.
The original Barnes X bullets on the other hand had quality control issues with the copper wire used to make them, the also had a poor record of expanding, they fouled terrible in many guns, and they had accuracy issues. The XLC version alleviated the fouling, but the other issues remained. The TSX solved the fouling and accuracy issues completely, but the erratic expansion issues persisted. The MRX which came out next had accuracy issues in some guns and tended to rivet which lead to wound channels being less than straight. The TTSX solved that issue, but still occasionally failed to expand on occasion. The latest version, the LRX attempted too fix the poor BC issue that Barnes monos have had since they went to bands on the shank. They some what succeeded in this regard although the BC's still are not great. In short the development of the Barnes mono has been an engineering cluster phuq where each successive generation has attempted to bandaid the issues of the previous. That's how I see it.
I should note that I shot several deer with a 270 of my dads using the original X and they worked great. My dad then took the same gun and loads to Africa and had several problems with bullets not expanding. This was circa 1991 IIRC. My dad also could not get the original X to shoot in several of his guns with any sort of accuracy, but that old 270, a late seventies Model 700 with one of the first Brown stocks loved them.

BWalker,

No, the Nosler Partition did not work "perfectly from day one." If you read the excellent biography of "Big" John Nosler (which he was called later in life, due to his grandson John), GOING BALLISTIC, the first Partitions grouped into about a foot at 100 yards. That was in 1946, but when the original lathe-turned version was introduced commercially in 1948 they were still not considered very accurate--though the first Partitions I bought and used in the mid-1970s shot into "around" an inch in both my Remington 700 .270 and sporterized 1903 Springfield .30-06.

The accuracy improved some when Nosler started making Partitions by impact-extrusion in the late 70s, but they still continued to tweak them in various ways to make them better. The techniques included core hardness and jacket "geometry," and are ongoing.

I knew Big John, but we never talked about bullet-making--except for his comments on the inaccuracy of the first, experimental Partitions! Have had a number of conversation about bullet-making with Bob and "young" John Nosler, as well as Randy Brooks. Have yet to hear about ANY bullet that was absolutely perfect right out of the gate, either from them or other bullet makers.

John, thanks for the correction. However, many bullets didn't shoot that well in 1948 I would imagine? I think you get the just of what I posted as well.

It's not disingenuous. You and I see things differently on this topic. I didn't use the MRX, and only used the XLC a little, but I have used and seen the X, TSX, TTSX, and LRX used quite a bit. This is mainly in .243", .257", .277", .284", .308", and .338". I haven't seen much from the list of issues you mentioned. Yes, I saw the odd rifle that took some work to get the X bullet to shoot decent groups (same with the PT!), but I never noticed the fouling to be terrible or the expansion to be a problem. Neither the X bullet nor the PT was perfect from inception. From my perspective, Barnes incrementally improved the X bullet just as Nosler incrementally improved the PT in order to, in your words, "improve ballistic performance, etc."

What is the concern with MRX, XLC, and original X bullets? None of those are offered currently, so other than for the sake of discussion, what does it matter? Happy Trails

You never will.

Nosler Partitions have been the most troublesome bullets for me to shoot accurately. That said when they do, I use them. The TTSXs have been the most consitently accurate bullets for me across all calibers and I use them more than most others. I do believe (and have experienced) TTSXs thrive on velocity (as I suspect all other mono metals do) and I use them accordingly. I use whatever shoots the best in my rifles AND appropriate for the game at hand. Lastly, some very credible folks here indicated problems with the Barnes' and I of course believe them. Bottom line is if I had only one bullet to use, without question, it would be a TTSX.