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Joined: Aug 2010
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I'm looking to buy a rod for steelhead fishing NY's Lake Ontario tributaries. These tribs have pretty strict regulations, so I will most likely be fishing either a single nymph or egg pattern under an indicator.

I have a chance to buy a used 10' Sage XP in 7 weight. I don't keep up with all of the latest and greatest rod designs, so I would like to ask if anyone has experience with this rod. If so, how does this older design compare with more recent designs with regard to rod weight? Nymphing all day with a 10' rod for a few days in a row seems to be a recipe for a sore shoulder, so I don't want a rod that weighs more than it needs to.

Thank you.

GB2

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I used Sage 7 and 8 wt 10 footers for years on Oregon's Deschutes for summer steelhead. With plenty of backing and good reels, either should suffice. The 7 for calm days and the 8 when fighting wind both with weight forward lines. With nymphing tactics though, one is rarely tossing long lengths of line. Newer rod models are a bit lighter and thinner, but an XP should still hang with the best. Go for it, as one can not have too many fly rods. Probably 15 or 16 around the house here.

Now for the bait and switch: In the last decade we've seen almost a complete migration by fly fishing steelheaders to Spey rods ranging from about 11 to 16 ft. It's a tough transition after decades of single handers to switch to two-handed casting, but once mastered, the two handers are an absolute dream to handle. Buddies with shoulder or arm issues associated with single handers have no problems with Spey rods. With Spey casting one rarely places a hand either behind or above his shoulder. One can also manipulate significantly more line with the longer units, and they are superior for nymphing tactics. One can be huddled beneath trees or backed up right against a high bank and still cast. Presently I have and almost exclusively use 4 Spey rods ranging from 12' 6'' 8 wt up to 16 ft 9 and 10 wts for steelhead They're all a pleasure to cast, and one can really blast the line out there. Still use my single handers for trout though.

One can find Spey rods now ranging from 4 wts up to 10 and 11 wts. Light/shorter stuff for smaller streams and the heavies for big water/wind/and heavy fish. If one can find a Spey Clave in his neighborhood, I'd recommend one attend. They can be an opportunity for some schooling, chances to actually cast and handle a wide variety of gear, find lines and reels that match up with ones present holdings, and simply trade stories with like minded folks. We've had a Clave near Portland on the Sandy river for about the last 18 or 19 years. Vendors show up and lay out about a quarter million $$ worth of gear that one can pick up on request and head to the river to cast. World class authors and guides also show up, giving presentations, and coaching on the sidelines for free.

This website is one of many places to start. Spey Pages Link

Look under "Claves and Other Gatherings."

There are tons of web based videos on Spey casting as well.

Lastly, I must own up that I'm a cheap bastard. With only a few exceptions, I've bought components and personally built most of my rods.

Good luck out there and keep us up on your doings,

Last edited by 1minute; 10/12/19.

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www.northforkcustomrods.com gloomis new stufff....


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Originally Posted by 1minute
If one can find a Spey Clave in his neighborhood, I'd recommend one attend. They can be an opportunity for some schooling, chances to actually cast and handle a wide variety of gear, find lines and reels that match up with ones present holdings, and simply trade stories with like minded folks. We've had a Clave near Portland on the Sandy river for about the last 18 or 19 years. Vendors show up and lay out about a quarter million $$ worth of gear that one can pick up on request and head to the river to cast. World class authors and guides also show up, giving presentations, and coaching on the sidelines for free


Wow, 18 or 19 years! That's funny to read now it's been so long since I've kept up with that stuff. I drove up there a couple times in '04/'05 or '05/'06 and it was a great learning experience. I'd imagine it's a lot larger now.

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I love the Sage XP! Is there better out there now sure. If the price is right I think you would be a fool not to buy it.


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1Minute,

Thank you for the information and advice. I usually get one to three two-day trips to NY per year, and I'm not sure if I want to take on a new, expensive Spey hobby at this time. I have a basic understanding of the advantages of two-handed fishing. I do fish a lot of areas where there is virtually no ability for a back cast, so I will give it more thought. I've been thinking about going out with a guide that specializes in Spey fishing to see what it's all about. But a guide, plus tip, is nearly the cost of a basic rod or a very good reel, so I'm still mulling it over. I'll look into some of the other things you've suggested.

Judman,

I don't see any fly rods listed by that builder. Last year, North Fork Composites (Gary Loomis' latest endeavor) had all of their rod blanks on sale at 60% off retail and free shipping during its Black Friday sale. I almost pulled the trigger on a centerpin float rod blank but decided to stick with fly fishing instead. I would bet they will have a similar sale this year.

MCH,

The rod is a Demo and is priced at $200. Sage will not warrant a Demo rod if anything breaks. Probably not a deal breaker. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller (online fly shop) regarding the rod's condition. I'm wondering why they still have a Demo rod hanging around the shop for a design that was probably discontinued about a decade ago.

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1Minute,

I've been considering your suggestion regarding a Spey rod, and since my last post, I've been wondering how such a long (and presumably heavier) rod would be for fishing nymphs all day. I'm thinking that such a rod would become a chore to high stick for hours on end.

For swinging flies, I'm thinking maybe the larger Spey rod wouldn't be as tiring because the rod is held lower as the fly swings downstream.

In upstate NY, swinging flies works OK in early fall and late spring for aggressive fish, but nymphs and egg patterns seem to be more effective during months when the water is very cold, which is probably from late November through late March. There is usually a huge snow pack around the Great Lakes region that melts in spring, and the melting snow keeps the water very cold even as the days begin to warm. Also, with my work schedule, I get more chances to fish during the cold winter months, and so nymphing will probably be the technique I use most often.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

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CoalCracker:

With a 14 to 16 ft rod in hand, there is not much need for high sticking. Yes, a Spey assembly is slightly heavier, but about the only time I hold mine with one hand is when one is swinging near surface flies (across and down presentations), and my arm is hanging straight down gripping the handle at its balance point. If high sticking, I have one hand just above the reel and the second on the fighting butt. Folks just don't handle them the way one does a balloon stick trout rod. In the lighter weights with today's materials, they are not all that heavy. One might surf around, and look at the specs posted by the various makers.

Retail prices do frighten me, but like said, I enjoy doing builds for about 1/3 of retail.

Must admit I don't do much nymphing for steelhead. I do two to three weeks of float trips between early August and mid-Sept for our summer runs when they'll come up and run down near surface swinging flies. Typically fish a 3 to 4 hour session morning and evening when canyon walls are shading the water. Mid-days are for gin and tonics or loading up and moving camp down river. If some event turns the water cloudy or during bright mid-day sessions, nymphing is the way to go while swinging sink tips comes in second.

For the last three seasons or so, our Pacific runs have been in the toilet. This was the first season since about 1977 that we did not do our traditional float trips and I'm suffering withdrawal. Might get a few sessions in on our Grande Rhonde river prior to a scheduled elk hunt in about 3 weeks.

Twenty years ago out here, one noticed the rare individual using a Spey. Now a single hander sticks out like sore thumb, and all assume he is a trout fisherman. Seems we were only about 100 years behind the Europeans.
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Have a good one and best of luck,

Last edited by 1minute; 10/13/19.

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That's a beautiful fish! Thank you for providing me with food for thought....

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An after thought.

This is the shop I purchased my latest build from. Almost a local as I can get there In 5 hours.

Meiser rods

There are countless other sources one might surf up.

We do get out for some winter fishing once in while. Actually landed two fish this day and I think water was around 32.4 degrees. Pretty much like dragging in a dead cat. Oregon's John Day River. I'm the good looking guy on the right.
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Last edited by 1minute; 10/13/19.

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The 10 ft. 7 weight Sage XP is a very good rod for your intended use. Used this exact rod for years in Alaska fishing glo bugs with floating line and streamers for large trout and coho.
Newer rods may be slightly lighter in weight. Fly line designs have improved in recent years and lines designed for single Spey casts make casting the bobbers, weight and beads much easier, plus you'll be able to fish close confines without back cast room.
Like 1Minute I prefer to swing flies and use 2 handed rods in various lengths and weights almost exclusively. Many good rod manufacturers, I use Sage rods, but know Bob Meiser well. His rods are very functional as well as being works of art.
Eventually you'll want different rods for different techniques, rivers, fish, but I think the 10 ft. 7 wt. rod would be a near perfect rod for steelhead nymphing, and will work well for small steam swinging

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Originally Posted by CoalCracker


MCH,

The rod is a Demo and is priced at $200. Sage will not warrant a Demo rod if anything breaks. Probably not a deal breaker. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller (online fly shop) regarding the rod's condition. I'm wondering why they still have a Demo rod hanging around the shop for a design that was probably discontinued about a decade ago.


If the rod was in good condition and looked solid it wouldn't scare me any. Offer $150.00


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Originally Posted by Judman
www.northforkcustomrods.com gloomis new stufff....

North Fork Custom Rods is not Gary Loomis's company, though they do use his new Edge blanks.

Gary Loomis's rod company is North Fork Composites. No relation to each other. At least that's what the owner of North Fork Custom told me two years ago when I had them build a rod for me.


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The problem with a used Sage rod is the cost to get the older rods repaired if/when they break. That rod, IF you are the original owner would still cost $150 to repair. That is why they are so cheap these days...

No complaint on the rods, but used rods need to be very cheap.


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Originally Posted by MickeyD
Originally Posted by Judman
www.northforkcustomrods.com gloomis new stufff....

North Fork Custom Rods is not Gary Loomis's company, though they do use his new Edge blanks.

Gary Loomis's rod company is North Fork Composites. No relation to each other. At least that's what the owner of North Fork Custom told me two years ago when I had them build a rod for me.


Yes they're about a mile down the road from my house, they'll build anything but prefer building on North fork... Gary showed me one of his linen prototypes, very nice as well.


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I have a 9' 5wt and an 8 wt XP and they are two of my favorite rods. Like binoculars the improvements are in small increments and a good rod will always be a good rod, just like good glass.

I would also consider an 11' switch rod for your use. These can be used as a single or double, spey or over head. They are not quite as good as a rod specifically designed as a spey rod but they are not far behind.

This place has really inexpensive Spey and Switch rods and they are actually pretty good especially considering the price, (check out the reviews). This would be a low cost way to try out a switch or spey rod and then you could always upgrade if you felt the need. https://theanglersroost.com/products/graphite-rods/graphite-spey-rods/index.html

Like you I am reluctant to go spey as I have over 15 top end rods that don't get used enough already. But it is fun what little I have done.


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XP's are great rods & you won't buy anything close to it, new, for that price; Sage really stepped up to fast tapers with the XP series.

For the rivers you're fishing I'd prefer a 9'..............but that just my preference. 7 wt will handle the fish in most instances, but an 8 wt does it much easier in tight water where you need to pressure or hold the fish.

Also, I agree with everything 1 Minute had to say about spey rods & fishing, so if your eventually in it for the long haul, you will likely migrate there at some point in time.

MM


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