Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Still having problems with BAR 308 ejecting casings...

Still trying to help a young friend sort out his new Browning BAR case ejection issues. Described in this thread from a while ago:

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6550755/Re_Browning_BAR_over_extractio

As you can see in this pic, the ejected casing is nicking the reciever and leaving ding marks.
You can see all the dings above the bolt handle slot, and also making contact where the yellow arrow is.


This is on a new gun. New gun was cleaned, scope rings mounted, and went to sight in. Dings were noticed when sighting in.

Thoroughly cleaned the gun (again), gas ports, guide rods, ejection clips, etc..
Put a few strips of masking tape in the dinged area to keep any more dings from happening, and to see any new marks.

After the cleaning, the ejected casing still dinged the receiver.
Tried some different ammo (all factory ammo), still did it.

Thought it might be hitting a scope cap. Removed the scope and scope rings, it still did it.
Purchased a new main spring which was stiffer, still did it.

At that point, before altering anything on the extractor or tweaking a gas port,and since this was a NEW gun, I had the young man send it back to Browning.
A new gun should not do this.

I was appalled when he got the gun back and a note from the service dept that said "Normal operation and wear". He called the Browning referencing his service order number and they told him that this is normal for some BAR's to eject the casing back into the receiver leaving marks like this.

HUH?!? This young man pays $1000 of his hard earned money for his first new deer rifle, and they tell you it is ok for the casing to beat the hell out of your receiver?
That is horrible.

Just tried it yesterday after getting it back, and it doesn't look like Browning did anything to the gun, still hits the receiver.
I am thoroughly disappointed in Browning's Service Department.

Any guidance to go from here? I will not accept that this is 'normal' for this rifle.
I've never heard of BAR's doing this. Anyone here find this "normal"?

Since a stiffer main spring didn't change the problem, I'm now leaning towards thinking that the extractor lip might be a bit oversized and holding onto the lip of the ejected casing too deep as it is being ejected. I can't feel or see any burrs on the extractor itself. Thinking it isn't a problem with the gas port....

If this bothers you, you don't want to see the brass marks on my prized M1A. The extraction and ejection system on a semi auto is designed to get the empty out as fast as possible so as not to interfere with the next round. As long as the empty isn't laying in the ejection port or otherwise interfering with feeding then the gun is doing it's job. You might be able to tweak the shape of the ejector to change the departure angle some, or, the reduce the strength of it's spring, but in doing so, unless you are experienced with such things, you may only make matters worse, or reduce it's reliable.

And, an out of whack gas port can cause a variety of extraction issues, from weak to violent. If yours has the gas regulator screw, then you are able to "tune" it in order to slow the bolt. I don't have an owners manual covering the tuning of this screw, but I'm thinking Browning has it written somewhere. But in theory, screw in to slow bolt, screw out to increase gas flow.

How about replacing the extractor with a new one for something to try without altering anything? That way you can revert back to original.

I'm going to compare the gas port openings with another gun of the exact same model that does not spin the casings into the receiver.

And yes, it does bother this young man that he spent all this money for a new rifle and then have a new ding put into the side of his new gun everytime he pulls the trigger.

I would imagine that someone that bought a new high-grade engraved BAR Safari would not be too thrilled with ding marks either....

Sorry, I was looking at the end of the yellow arrow which looks like a little color transfer which could be normal. I just noticed the rest of the dings. Is that a lacquer finish on the receiver? It sure dings up like one. I agree, the brass should never damage the finish like that! It looks like what might happen if the brass were bouncing off the scope and back on the receiver. Regardless, Browning should definitely take care of that.

I worked in the Browning Arms Co. gunsmithing department for many years, during that time I worked on hundreds of BAR's and never saw one that dinged the receiver. Your friend needs to call and speak to the supervisor of the gunsmithing department or the service manager regarding this issue. Nicks like that are definately not normal, little brass marks are. Be persistant and see if they'll let you send the gun back specifically addressed to the Service Manager or Gunsmith Shop Supervisor. That way they'll see the dings first hand and can initiate a fix.

The finish is a matte finish LW Stalked BAR.

Ah yes, aluminum. Though still no excuse. I'd be looking that scope over for brass case impact evidence. I can't picture a fired case bouncing along the top of the receiver like that unless it were the result of a ricochet.

OP stated earlier that he removed the scope and it still did it. I had a 72 and 82 BAR that were shot hundreds of times with not a single mark. Good luck with browning. The couple times I've sent guns back they have been great.

Scope and bases were removed- still does it with nothing on the gun at all.

Remington 150 Core-Loks and Federal factory ammo both do it.

The empty case is being held by the extractor long enough to make contact where the yellow arrow is.
From that contact on the lower part of the casing, the top of the casing is being spun into the receiver, and the case mouth is making the multiple ding marks above the handle slot. Spent cases show a slight flattened spot on the mouth.

Browning says this is normal operation....

Gotta love it..


As to a 'slight flattened spot on the mouth' - that IS a common occurrence and will be found on most semi-auto rifles..

But getting dings that far back is definitely NOT normal operation. I've never seen those kind of marks before on any BAR I've had in the shop..

Here's an update- I ordered a new extractor, new ejector pin, and the heavier BAR action spring from Midway for minimal costs. That way I could tinker with them and always revert back to normal stock configuration, and also not changing the gas port adjustment.

I applied some electric tape to the receiver impact area- that tape allows you to see any slight dings easily. Heavier spring made no difference in the cases spinning back and dinging the receiver. At my shop at work I took down the extractor lip in .010" increments, re-assembling and test firing after each modification. That didn't make much difference either. I took that extractor down to the point where it almost wouldn't grip the case anymore.

I installed the stock extractor back in place. I took note during all this where the empties where landing in relation to the gun position. Always being spun back almost completely to the rear of the shooter. That left the ejector pin (or pin spring) as one more thing to tinker with. I took .015" off the pin, and things got better! Cases were landing off the side a bit more, and not as much of dinging on the reciever. Took another .010" off the ejector pin, and success!!

Casings land straight out to the right, and no dings on the receiver. Tested this several times with full mag, and empty mag to verify operation with differening upward mag spring drag on the bolt. Re-installed scope rings and scope, things were still operating nicely.

The young man who is the owner is quite happy now, and relieved his gun isn't getting beat up each time he fires it.

I was wondering about the ejector and/or it's spring - thinking that maybe the spring had too much tension on it.. But the ejector length was something I did not consider..

I was thinking about clipping a coil at a time off the spring instead, but what I didn't want was a 'soft ejection' or slow one due to softer spring. So I went the route of playing with the pin length. And once I really started looking at how far that pin protrudes into the bolt face area compared to where the extractor holds onto the case rim, it made sense to me that it was spinning the case backwards. That pin seems quite long, and the spring is quite stiff.

I'd rather keep the stiff spring and outward side ejection rather than softer and rearward..... But this all seems to work fine now, so I'm leaving well enough alone. The young man asked me if there's any way to fix the ding marks that are on the receiver. I told him to consider those "character marks" now.

That sounds like a problem , properly solved ! I'll file this away in the memory bank . Thanks for sharing !

I know this an old post but if you're still listening I had the same problem with jammed ejections. The gunsmith was stymied and didn't know what to do. He said it was my reloads and he tried out factory ammunition and had the same results. I was sitting at my bench reloading my 308's for my AR10 and it hit me. What I did was buy a set of small base 7mm mag dies and I haven't had a jam since. My gunsmith said he didn't even think about that solution. Hopefully this will help you if you ever look back at this post.
Good luck sceeder

The BAR ejects like a AR 15.

IF the EXTRACTOR has a sharp edge it will hook the brass and it will fling into the receiver...
OR and or really - if the Ejector spring is too strong it will kick that brass really hard and fast which contributes to the brass mouth hitting the receiver and cutting it.

In high power we’d cut a 2 turns off the ejector spring to lighten it up, and the brass would kick 45 degrees to the front right vs. 45 to the back right.

Check how sharp your extractor is first.


Here’s a video where you can see what I’m talking about in slow motion.
IF the AR didn’t have that bump on the receiver

the brass mouth could hit it and cut it just like yours does.

Black frog,

It is “normal” but that doesn’t mean you can’t tweak it... I wouldn’t cut off more than 1 spring turn at a time..

BUT FIRST - make sure that Extractor doesn’t have a bur on it that’s causing the whole thing.

Wow!

Blackfrog has retired and moved to Florida since this thread was made.