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Originally Posted by 65BR
Great thread. Enjoyed the posts. Enlightens many who have not had the opportunity to witness or experience what can be done.

Indeed luck has a bearing when stretching the limits. And that luck happens more often with practice 😁


Dedinately some luck involved, open sights on a 6" barrel at 600 yards at targets you can barely see, are not conducive to repeatable hits.

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Except Elmer did it a number of times on that deer.. !!


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Originally Posted by mirage243
Originally Posted by 65BR
Great thread. Enjoyed the posts. Enlightens many who have not had the opportunity to witness or experience what can be done.

Indeed luck has a bearing when stretching the limits. And that luck happens more often with practice 😁


Dedinately some luck involved, open sights on a 6" barrel at 600 yards at targets you can barely see, are not conducive to repeatable hits.


I will add, I would personally not attempt to replicate some of Elmer's famous shots, but I would w/o hesitation give a go up to 200 yds with a 41, 44, or similar if I were in terrain that would allow me to spot my shots....and walk them on. 100 yds and under is much more realistic for a majority of handgunners.......sight picture gets iffy in various light, backgrounds, and conditions if using irons. Many other variables....but I believe I read long ago a handgun is roughly 3x harder to hit with than a rifle. That could well be true.

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I dont have much to contribute to the conversation.
EK and PO are very misunderstood by todays gun crank. Both men wrote primarily for magazines. The articles are hard to find. Neither man advocated high pressure handloads to the extent attributed to them.
EK wrote in his Elmer Keith Says: column for the October 1957 issue of Guns magazine: Reloading the 44 Magnum. This is is a very good article and worth reading today. In the article EK speaks of shooting to 600 yards.

In the February 1959 issue of guns Magazine EK wrote Pressures and Velocities of Keith 44 Magnum Handloads. A very good article on hand loading the .44 Magnum. He aslo wrote of the 600 yard shot and pretty clearly indicates the shot was taken with a 6 1/2" barrel S&W.
Guns Magazine February 1959
Elmer Keith Says:
Pressures and Velocities of Keith 44 Magnum Handloads

I have killed three deer with the .44 Magnum cartridge, one at 20 yards head shot through brain from 6 ½” S &W, one at 25 yards (another brain shot), and one at over 600 yards, hit once in the right jaw, then hit again broadside through both lungs and out as the deer turned broadside up the mountain. The deer was hit first by a rifleman using a .300 Magnum. I shot at such crazy long range only to help stop a wounded animal. My first shot was low, my second shot also low at the bucks heels, but the next two shots, fired with a higher hold, stopped him. Even at such extreme range, the big sixgun slug, Remington factory load, cut a .60 caliber hole through the deer.


Last edited by william_iorg; 03/17/20.

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Grew up reading Elmer and learned from his writings how to hit at long range with a sixgun. 600 yards is a bit much but a fair sized 12" gong at 200 yards is certainly doable. Once hit one 4 out of 6 shots with a J-frame Model 34 .22, much to the chagrin of someone who told me it was impossible. Once you find the hold repeating it isn't too difficult but as with long range rifle shooting, wind is your biggest concern.


Elmer also related the story of hitting an outhouse at 700 yards with a 1911 .45. He walked the shots in, adjusting his hold until he hit it.

Reading that story I always wondered if he checked that outhouse first to see if it was occupied... wink


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Someone once posted no thread was good without a picture.
EK wrote the article: We Call The Long Shots for the December 1959 issue of Guns magazine.
“Sixguns at 600 yards may sound fantastic but practice makes big handguns formidable far beyond usual ranges.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Originally Posted by william_iorg
Even at such extreme range, the big sixgun slug, Remington factory load, cut a .60 caliber hole through the deer.



I'm calling bullsheit, EK may be a god to some, but he is full of sheit to claim that a 44 magnum punched slam through a deer at 600 yards. Maximum of 200 ft lbs of energy left at that range. Come on man.

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FPE has little to do with penetration. I’ve been shooting hogs for quite a long while with CB shorts. 32# ME is advertised by CCI. They will fully penetrate the skull and brain of a 250# hog and about 6” of neck muscle. 100+ hogs with the round and only one required a second shot.


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Originally Posted by mirage243
Originally Posted by william_iorg
Even at such extreme range, the big sixgun slug, Remington factory load, cut a .60 caliber hole through the deer.



I'm calling bullsheit, EK may be a god to some, but he is full of sheit to claim that a 44 magnum punched slam through a deer at 600 yards. Maximum of 200 ft lbs of energy left at that range. Come on man.


There was more to this story, Elmer was at a range after this was published and a loudmouth called him out, indirectly of course, and Elmer drew his .44 and shot a rock at the 600 yard range and then invited the loudmouth to stand on that rock and call him a liar again.


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Some guys would struggle reading the story of Billy Dixon shooting an Indian off his horse in a planned and called shot at a later measured 1 mile, using a .45/70.
The Indian didn't think he could do it either..............


When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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I believe old Elmer shot that deer at 600 yards he had know reason to lie. heck i had a old o/u Savage 22L.R./ 410 friend said can you hit that old seed chair top it was about 150 yards away hit it the first shot ,friend said you were lucky so i shot again 2 more times hit it both times again.if you shoot enough you kinda get a feel for it with Kentucky windage. when i was young i had a big advantage living in the country and 2 uncles working at a ammo factory both got me alot of 22 L.R. ammo to shoot,i shot at stuff all the time that was over 50 years ago when nobody really cared what you did on their land.those were the days !

Last edited by pete53; 03/21/20.

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Originally Posted by pete53
I believe old Elmer shot that deer at 600 yards he had know reason to lie.


Do you believe it blew a .60 diameter hole all the way threw him? 😁

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Originally Posted by mirage243
Originally Posted by william_iorg
Even at such extreme range, the big sixgun slug, Remington factory load, cut a .60 caliber hole through the deer.



I'm calling bullsheit, EK may be a god to some, but he is full of sheit to claim that a 44 magnum punched slam through a deer at 600 yards. Maximum of 200 ft lbs of energy left at that range. Come on man.

Originally Posted by DigitalDan
FPE has little to do with penetration. I’ve been shooting hogs for quite a long while with CB shorts. 32# ME is advertised by CCI. They will fully penetrate the skull and brain of a 250# hog and about 6” of neck muscle. 100+ hogs with the round and only one required a second shot.


FPE is irrelevant
I've shot completely through large Bison and water buffalo with revolvers and there is no doubt in my mind that a 240 grain flat point jacketed bullet would do exactly what Elmer said it did



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Originally Posted by mirage243
Originally Posted by pete53
I believe old Elmer shot that deer at 600 yards he had know reason to lie.


Do you believe it blew a .60 diameter hole all the way threw him? 😁


if that animal is angled a little its possible ?


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Originally Posted by pete53
Originally Posted by pete53
I believe old Elmer shot that deer at 600 yards he had know reason to lie.


if that animal is angled a little its possible ?


He had NO reason to lie ---- pete.
S M H, smirk


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Pete

you don't NO what you don't NO.

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I'm not saying he didn't hit it, I'm just saying he stretched the truth a little when he claimed the bullet blew a hole all the way through it. Ain't much ooomph left at 600 yards out of a pistol. Couple hundred pounds of energy left, tops.

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Don't compare a little .243 to a cast 44 slug.. You can tell who shoots and who doesn't..


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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Don't compare a little .243 to a cast 44 slug.. You can tell who shoots and who doesn't..


You can tell who knows ballistics and who doesn't. That little .243 is totin over 3 times the energy at 600 yards that the 44 mag is. 😂😂

Don't let facts get in the way of a good arguement, carry on.

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You need to step back from the FPE Altar.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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