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Have been doing some more work and some thinking on the Big Bore 94 tribe. I have two, a 375 Win in a top eject early generation and a 307 in a pre-safety classic stocked model.

The 375 is under 6.5 pounds and really handy while the 307 is up over 7 with the bases and with scope less handy. The extra weight is all in the barrel and the 307 is very accurate, capable of 1.25 MOA with factory leverevolution loads where the 375 struggles to hit 2MOA and only with the very best bullet and powder combinations. 2.5-3 Moa is more common and still needs good loads. 1680 and RL7 are my favourite powders.

Ballistic Potential (Sorry this chart doesn't appear as I had written it)

1)Caliber 2) Bullet 3) Velocity 4) Range to Expand Bullets (1700fps) 5)Range to 1000 FT Ibs (Deer and Caribou) 6) Range to 1500 Ft Ibs (Elk and Moose)

1/ -------- 2/ ------3/ -----4/ --------5/ --------6

(1)30-30 (2)160 FTX (3) 2250 (4) 225 Yards (5) 225 Yards (6) 75 Yards
(1)307 Win (2)160 FTX (3) 2550 (4) 350 yards (5)350 yards (6)190 Yards
(1)307 Win (2) 170 N Part (3)2500 (4)250 yards (5) 275 yards (6) 150 yards
(1)356 Win (2)200 FTX (3)2450 (4)275 Yards (5)350+ Yards (6) 225 Yards
(1)356 Win (2)220 Speer (3)2350 (4) 250 yards (5)350+ Yards (6) 240 Yards

(1)375 Win (2)255 Barnes (3)1900 (4)125 yards (5) 250 yards (6) 112 yards
(1)375 Win (2)200 Sierra (3)2300 (4)150 Yards (5)225 Yards (6)100 Yard

If you look at the above chart you can see the limitations of the 375 Win. I love mine but I don't expect the bullets to expand much past 150 yards This limits the speed of kills on deer and caribou sized game and becomes the limiting factor before energy limitation or trajectory. This does make it entirely useful with open sights and even if you could no need to scope this one. An accurate 307 could be a 350 yard caribou gun with ballistic dots on the scope and some practice. Cut the cases a bit shorter and use the 160FTX designed for the 308 Marlin express (bc=.395) and things could get even better. Still you run out of energy at 200 yards or so for moose. That's where the 356 comes into it's own being capable to 240 yards or so with the 220 Speer. Interesting tribe...very useful for NA game. Wish they hadn't failed.

What the 375 badly needs is a 220 or 230 grain FTX or other relatively high bc bullet that could start at 2150 ft/sec and expand out at 175 yards or a bit further. It would also hang on to energy enough for moose at the same range. Right now it just doesn't have the right easily available bullet to make it fully capable to what it could be. As is it isn't the long range deer or caribou cartridge that a 30-30 is, but it does have some advantage for moose and defensive use on bears. Even with the right bullets it would not have the versatility of the 307 or 356 but it is sure a handy little thing.

The 356 is the most versatile of the three and the 307 is a long range deer and caribou specialist while still giving a useful range for moose.

Great idea for covering 90% of hunting in NA.

Probably more clear here if you are interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVG6fqEAfMM

.356 simply works. I like it.

If I didn't have a BLR and Savage Featherweight in 358 Winchester I'd be looking hard for one!

I LOVE your videos, sir! Still on the hunt for a 356 myself, but haven't seen one in a long time. Hope all is well by you.

Back at you Jorge. Taking the family out on the land this coming week. Social Distancing at it's finest. The 356 is probably the most versatile of the tribe but I like the 307 the best.

Quicker bullet upset leads too quicker kills on small to medium big game. I used a 358 Winchester a bunch in Nunavut and was surprised at how much quicker kills where on caribou with the 308. I think the 307-356 comparison would be the same. Go up in game size and the 358/356 comes into it's own. There the mild bullet upset leads to great penetration and that's what you need on bigger critters.

Great video North61! In my opinion the big bore family is an outstanding addition to the mod 94 series. Have settled on the 356 since brown bears are common in many areas I hunt. Currently using the 200gr factory power point and 250gr Kodiak. Curious how the 220gr Speer has performed, read several articles stating it won't expand at 356 velocities. Currently experimenting with several ball powders to see if can safely increase velocity.

There is one currently in the classifieds but it has been cerakoted.
I have a nice older Marlin 336A that I have considered reboring to 356 but I cannot convince myself to do it.
Les

Check out this great post: https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/...ullet-performance-part-ii-handloads.html

The 220 grain bullet should expand ok in the 356 as it's capable in the slower 35 Rem at least close in. My own experience in the 358 would suggest that past 175-200 yards you might have limited expansion but great penetration.

I also will be testing the 220 grain Speer out of my Big Bore .356. I personally feel 220 grains is a better fit for the small .356 case, but have no actual experience with it. Just basing my thoughts on my own experiences this last 55 years with a .338 and 30-06.

Hopefully Karl from Alaska Bullet Works will soon offer the 220 grain version of his bonded bullet for the .356 Winny. I have a sizing die coming from Lee and will be sizing that 220 grain Speer down to .348 for use in my Ackley Improved version. That big case will give plenty of speed to that 220 grain bullet as well as the 250 grain Kodiak. The 220 grain Speer's are less then a 1/3 the cost of the Kodiak's. I have long wanted and old style lever gun that gave true .35 Whelen ballistics, the .348 Ackley Improved will be close enough.

I wish the Big Bore .356 Win had a 22' or 24" barrel and a pistol grip, I just prefer a pistol grip for recoil control. But, it fits my wife and youngest grand son very well and I will probably be packing the Mod. 71. Long ago Win, offered the Mod. 94 Black Shadow, a synthetic stock with a pistol grip chambered for the .444 Marlin. Rumor has it Win. was also looking at the .40 bore in their Big Bore line up, but canned the idea after the rest of the line showed weak sales. I'm glad they didn't do it as it would be another gun I can't live with out. LOL

Waiting on "markak338fed" to see what he can do to soup up the .356 Win. I asked Buffalo Bore owner Tim Sundels about making up some +P .356 Win. ammo, he said he would like to, but there is not a steady supply of components or enough .356 users.

I think the .307 Win. is a good idea and if I had one I would put a Leupold 1.5-5x20 scope on it. With a Barnes X or Nosler Partition it would be a serious caribou or moose rifle out to 300 yards. The grand old 30-06 was making a name for it self in the worlds big game fields over 100 years ago with lesser bullets and similar ballistics. Big bears, a skilled riflemen that stays cool and knows a bears anatomy would make it work. If I need a .30 caliber lever gun I can fire up Dad's old Mod. 99 in .300 Savage.

At my age I should probably quit buying rifles and spend my money else where. So hard to do.......Woe is me.....

AK: I ordered the 250 grain bullets from Alaska Bullet Works. Karl was very easy to work with. I was disappointed in the Speer 220 FN and consider it a deer bullet only. The slightly less flat trajectory of the 250 grain bullet is a good trade for the better penetration on bears. I believe North61 tests show this.

I like the .375 Winchester but I have found it to be crimp sensitive. You can work with roll crimp and the Lee factory crimp die and improve accuracy a bit but it is hard to keep groups under 2" on an everyday basis.
My best accuracy results were with the 200 grain Sierra bullet driven as fast as I could get it to go.

The .375 Winchester is powder capacity limited and it is difficult to compare it to the .307 and .356 cartridges.
Back in the Marlin Talk board days there were some people who were getting a bit better accuracy than I can muster. The trick seemed to be using as largea diameter cast bullet as would chamber. The throats being a bit large and the origin of the rifling a bit abrupt.

My preferred powder has always been Hodgdon 4198. Alliant Reloder 7 works fine but I am able to generate slightly higher velocities and perhaps just a bit better accuracy using H4198.For our little West Texas deer the Sierra 200 grain bullet at 2,300 fps+ is the best load. The Sierra bullet is tough and penetrates well. I find the 220 grain Hornady does not open up quickly enough on our light framed deer.

Hodgdon Benchmark will deliver 2,294 fps with accuracy in the 2"circle on most days. Bench mark is very easy to work with, you just cannot get enough into the case.
Alliant Reloder 10x comes up a little short velocity wise - 2,280 fps is about the top end with the 200 grain bullet - but it will deliver accuracy from the starting load to the top load. It seems very predictable.
Hodgdon 322 comes up a bit short in velocity - 2,270 fps is about tops with the 200 grain bullet. H322 has the bad habit of leaving a few hard little kernals in the chamber when you extract the case and dimpling the next case fired.

My critters don't hunt me so the heavy bullets are not in general use for me. The 255 grain bullets run at cast bullet velocities so I shoot the 250 grain Lee bullet as my primary lead bullet. Cast sift or heat treated they do about as well as any I have tried.

Greg, the little 375 winchester, using 255 grain Barnes 0riginals will expand very well at 200 yds and within. I never found the strengthened big bore receiver to be necessary for the little 375. We only ever used cheap rebored 30-30's.
I used slower RL 10x @ 1870 fps for lower pressure.

Quartering towards shot at about 150-175 yd. Bullet hit fat bull caribou head on. Nicked the vertebrae, and brisket bone. It never touched the from quarters, went right between them. Hide caught bullet on the offside. That pure copper jacketed Barnes 0 is a darn good lever gun bullet at lower velocity.

Mainer: What is your load for the 255 grain Barnes. I'm using Rl-7 with mediocre results. GReat with the 200gr Sierra though

Mainer (Mike) That's good to know about the 255 Barnes. They shoot pretty well in my rifle not as well as 200 Sierras at 2300 with 1680 but well enough for 200 yard shots at caribou. I have it set up for the 255's and a 270 Cast bullet. The 200 load shoots over a foot higher at 100 yards! I like the whole concept of the 375.

North, I think you mentioned it in one of your videos, but there is a 10grain difference in case weight between Star Line and WW or Jamison brass. I think you also mentioned the Star line load of 33gr of RL7 (max in the Barnes book) gave you too much velocity. I picked up a sweet Marlin in 375 that topped with an old Weaver, shoots the 200gr Sierras really well (as does my 94 with irons), but I still would prefer to switch to the 255gr Barnes, so if you guys can share your loads, it would save me some time. jorge

Been shooting a prewar model 64 and a Henry in 38/55. The model 64 is a Jess rebore from a frosty 32 special barrel. It is an impressive cartridge with Re7 and a 265 grain and a 230 grain

Jorgel, start at 30 grains of reloader 10x and work up. Once you get to a full case, tap case to settle powder and compress in half grain increments.

I don't like bullets with no sectional density in bear country.

The 255 grain Barnes O trashed the entire front end of a brown bear shot at 3-4 feet away. Found against the hide on the offside.

Thanks, Reloader 10 is hard to find much anymore!

Here you go: All loads crimped with Lee Factory Crimp Die: Approach all loads with caution from below and check against a reputable load manual. I would not approach loads without a chronograph as the stretchy rear action makes it difficult to guess at pressure. I don't ride the pressure curve on this type of rifle!

Starline Brass (LESS CAPACITY THAN WINCHESTER)
200 Sierra 35.7 grains 1680 2200+fps 2.530 OAL VG Accuracy (APPROACH ALL LOADS WITH CAUTION)
271 Hard Cast GC 28.5 RL 7 VG Accuracy 2.520 OAL

Win Brass (Greater Capacity than starline...DO NOT use in starline brass)
230 Speer (235 Flattened) 34.5 RL7 2025 fps excellent accuracy 2.525 OAL best groups with any bullet (I wish a bullet like this was made standard by Speer with a cannelure)
255 Barnes 33.0 RL7 1920fps good+ accuracy 2.56 OAL approaching maximum pressure

As an aside the 235 speer flattened down to 229-230 grains is by a good margin the most accurate projectile in my BB 94. It might not expand much past 125-150 yards or so.

Thank you. I do have some 255 Barnes loaded in Starline brass with 33gr of RL-7 that I will no longer shoot. I do have some Jamison that is comparable (10 grains lighter) to Winchester brass

Just got back from the range with some interesting results. I had some 255gr Barnes loaded with 33gr of RL-7 (max book load) in Star Line cases and some in Jamison. I also had some factory Buffalo Bore in the same weight. The rifle was a Marlin 1875 (336):

Star Line: 1887, 1947, 1953
Jamison: 1874, 1858, 1877.
An honest 1.75" group at 100, and about 1.5" low of center bull

Buffalo Bore: 1970, 1977 but almost 8" high and 2" right.

Perplexing to be sure. The 200 gr Sierras shoot right at 1" about 2" high at 100. Load was again max book load of 35gr RL-7.

That is interesting/ What was your speed on the 200 Sierra's. They are shooting way lower in your rifle than mine. Any idea what powder Buffalo Bore is using?

I am going to try and shoot again today to double check everything to make sure the chrono was giving me accurate readings (there was a lot of sun out). The one positive indicator is the Buffalo rounds were pretty close in velocity so the odds of the speeds being off makes it less likely? I'll post once I get results.

Jorgel, as the pressure went up with that heavy buffalo bore load, the thin barrel and all that attached tubular mag/barrel band stuff makes for some bizarre harmonics. Your loads are 40,000+ psi. That buffalo bore gotta be 50,000 psi.

Ok gents just got back and ensured the chronology was accurate. I must have a slow barrel. I even tried two types of Barnes 255gr Bullets, the one designed for the 375 and the one for the 38/55 which seats much deeper. As you can see from the target, there was no difference in Point of impact with the full load of 33gr RL-7 OR using Star Line and Jamison brass. Velocity hovered around the 1870 mark. Initial three shot group are the ones with the connecting lines and a clean barrel. The three on target were after scope correction. Same for the 200 SierrasThe Buffalo Bore clocked at 1950, but horrible accuracy and way up and left.

The 200 gr Sierras (left target) with again a full book load of 35gr RL-7, barely broke 2,000 fps, but the nice thing is they were very accurate and printed about 2.5" higher than the 255s which as you can see, were smack on the bullseye. I guess I will accept the lower speeds and take the accuracy . This rifle will be used for hogs and deer down here. Once I get to our place in PA, I'll play with them at 200 yards. Again this is out of a Marlin 375. Oddly enough and goes to show you every rifle is different, my 94 Big bore, sighted in at 50 yards with the Sierras, prints dead on the bull but the 255s about 4" LOWER.

Let me know what you think

Go to Corbin and buy a cannelure tool and it will make your life easier in those specialty situations. It adjusts to different lengths so as to place the cannelure in the desired position. As long as you have a lead core. I used it on .429 bullets I swaged in Corbin dies. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Jorgel, sounds like you're chasing velocity and haven't got where yah want. Pick up a canister of N120. The extruded kernels are smaller and denser than reloader 7, while having a similar burn rate.

You'll duplicate or exceed that expensive buffalo bore stuff....

https://www.vihtavuori.com/powder/n120-rifle-powder/

Mainer: Actually, I think I'm ok, but yeah, I would like to get close to the advertised speeds fro the 200gr Sierras.

You guys been having a lot of fun down here, I only have a M-94 35-55 WCF, but, with it and the 260-265gr Beartooth and Cast Performance hard cast FNGC bullets at 1855 fps, it would take an awful big animal to stop one, they go through deer and pigs [any angle] so fast you can see debris from the ground fly up behind them, double shoulder punched deer go straight down, pigs do the same unless hit in the ribs, then simply buck a little and walk till they fall over.

Cast and sized at .380 inch, I'd shoot and Elk or Moose with mine.

Mainer is spot on the Barnes bullet in the 375. My son duplicated his loads with that bullet and turned his 375 into a very hard to beat bush gun. He took a nice bull moose last fall with it at 160 yards.

I have given up on the 200 Sierra's they shoot well but so much higher than the 255 Barnes that it is not worth the sight in time. Wish my rifle regulated more like Jorge's. Glad to hear the 255's are soft enough to expand at longer ranges. I'll give it a whirl.

North and Yukon,

Out of all intermediate power cartridges, the 375 win makes most sense to me. Model 94s can be had all day long for $150-200. As a berry picking gun, truck gun, bear over bait, wild boar or mountain lion over dogs or compact trapline gun it's deadly.

After the rebore, you've a true winchester fighting weapon, cheaper than a rossi 92.

Nothing carries better than your hand wrapped around the receiver of the little 94 carbine.

Thanks Mainer, I am really happy to own one. As you say it's a super handy device in bear country. Going to do a lot of hiking over the next three months getting ready for sheep season and this little 6 pound package will be coming with me.

North, Yukon or Mainer, hate to butt in, but have any of you men shot large heavy game with 260-265gr hard cast flat nosed gas checked bullets in 375 Winchester/38-55 WCF? I have no experience in doing so, just wondering how my load at 1855 fps powered with RL-7 may do on the big animals.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner, I haven't but the heavy bullets will not stabilize in the 1:12 of the 375 Winchester. At least not for me. On the 38/55 they are very accurate. Drop Woody a note. He loads them in his 38/55. jorge

You need to try that again. My regular load in my 375BB is a 300gr cast FN and it’s very accurate.

The long range 38/55 users set up their rifles with 1:12” twist barrels and they stabilise even heavier 330gr pills at BP speeds.

Gunner, I haven't. I have no interest in hard cast anything for hunting moose caribou and bear. I like a smidgen of controlled expansion from the pure copper/soft lead Barnes O bullets.

Not even in my 357 mag trail pistol do I use hard cast. I load that with 180 grain swift A-Frames.

What is your load? I have a bunch of really nice cast 275 gr bullets and heavier ones as well, that I would love to shoot.

Thanks Jorge, I wasn't aware the '94's in 38-55 and 375 had differing twist rates, 200 yard steel with mine and a receiver peep is pure cake my Friend, very accurate to boot.

Mainer, thanks for that, and not to derail the thread, but what you said about the Barnes' makes me think I need to stop wasting my heavy jacket 250gr Barnes' in my M-71 348 Winchester, bought 4 boxes from Alaska Bullet Works, was going to reload all my brass with those bullets when the Barnes's were shot up, maybe I should be hunting with them instead, run them an easy 2250-2275 fps.

I have used 271 grain Hard Cast gas checked bullets in my 375. They shoot very accurately from 1500-1800fps. Haven't shot anything with them as Like Mainer I like some expansion. I have a 290 grain mold that will likely cast a 300 grain bullet and it is supposed to do very well in the 375 but I haven't got into it yet.

However tested on ballistic media what you get with an expanding bullet is a wound channel that looks like a turnip with a tapered tail at the end. Basically you get a rapidly growing wound channel that creates massive destruction for a bit and then closes up creating a very narrow channel at the end. With 255 grain bullets the channel will be about 12-20" long depending on media density. This large diameter channel creates a lot of shock and fast kills especially on smaller big game animals.

The Hard cast creates a carrot shaped wound channel. The wide flat point does create a bigger than caliber channel but one that is much less wide and much deeper than that of an expanding bullet. It penetrates 50-80% further but will not create the sudden immense shock, it will however be similar in width throughout it's depth. I would expect slower kills, and unless the animals are huge..over penetration. If the cast is the right mix of hardness without being brittle they should do really well on bone. For really big animals the penetration might be helpful but the 375 Win is not a giant killer. It will take moose but I wouldn't use one on Bison.

For game in its class the soft points are the way to go. An argument could be made for hard casts for Grizzly protection to allow penetration into the CNS. It's arguable at least. Not sure about that yet myself though.

IF one of you guys could post a load for the heavier cast bullets, it would be most appreciated. The load I tried was primarily a 38/55 load using 23gr of 5744 and it sucked.

I have been using 28.5 RL 7 with 271grain gas checked hard cast and Starline brass. Gets good groups and prints close to 255 Barnes in Win Brass with 32.5 RL7. Wasn't going for max just a good shooting load. Have not chronographed it.... probably 1650 or so?

Fellas I have two 38-55's a '94 Win and a Uberti Hi wall with different twists.. 94 Win = 1:20 Uberti =1:18 ... Not a lot of difference but seemingly enough to keyhole my 325 gr lead gas checks shot from the Hi wall however they stabilize and group 2" at 100yds via the Winchester 94.. Having played with several sizing diameters both shoot best when pills are sized .380. The 23 gr 5744 load I gave Jorge so far gives me excellent accuracy/vel and burns very clean with magnum primers.

I've also compared loads with the short 94 case vs the longer case for the Hi wall without any significant difference using the same bullet and diameter..just wish the Hi wall would throw the heavy like the Winchester.

Having checked further the Pedersoli 38-55 Hi wall has a 1:12 like the Winchester 375's. .

I load 28gr of Reloader 7 behind a 300FNGC for around 1850 FPS. That’s in reformed 30/30 cases. 375Win brass is a little thicker so you might drop it back to 25gr and work up. It’s a punchy load in a light carbine. Accuracy is brilliant.

The 375Win has a long throat, presumably designed to blow off pressure quickly, much like the 458 Win Mag. It’s Winchester’s answer of making a short case perform like a longer one. The throat is so long that you can’t load a bullet out and have it touch the lands and still cycle in a levergun. This problem is exacerbated in straight wall designs. The best way to get accuracy in these situations I find is to load as large a diameter pill that will still chamber freely and cycle. This helps centre the bullet in the chamber and align it with the bore rather than having it slump to the bottom of the chamber. A longer cast pill with a bore riding nose is better for accuracy as the front engages the rifling while the base is still supported in the case.

FYI the throating in the 38/55 is totally different to that of the 375Win and the standard twist rate in a 38/55 is 1 in 18”.

Most mould designs in this caliber are designed for the 38/55 and have a relatively short nose. You really need a Lee FCD so you can crimp in place to load to 2.55”.

I’ve shot fallow deer with mine and there was no sign of the bullet pulling up in game of that size. Penetration was complete, even on quartering shots. I need to take it out more but with ageing eyesight I tend to hunt mostly with scoped rifles.

I purchased a good mould for this caliber but have yet to try it on game. It’s a 250gr HP mould. With a suitable alloy it should provide rapid expansion and good penetration over a wide range.

Thank you guys for all the data. Woody that load from North for your 275 hard cast should work ok. Going to give it a try this weekend.

Thanks for all that North, I wish Woodleigh would make a 270gr flat nosed Weldcore for the lever guns.

Dang Jorge, just came in from the load shop, i'll grab my load book in the morning, it's a modern 24 inch barreled 38-55, but, bet I'm loading it close to you men's 375 Winchesters.

Good lord what a crazy wet muddy day on the farm, after two dry shirts, another pair of jeans and a dry pair of boots and socks I finally made it out to the load shop.

my 38-55 WCF load:

WW brass
260 or 265gr Cast Performance or Beartooth hard cast gas check bullets
32 grs RL-7
FED-210 or WLR primers
COL 2.490 inch, good roll crimp in groove
Vel. 1855 fps

It's a hell of a load in a modern 24 inch barreled 38-55 WCF, and would be a good spot to compare loading for a 375 Winchester.

If you don't mind: What are you shooting this out of?

Thank you.

IIRC the Winchester Legendary Frontiersman was made in 1979, a completely safe load in my rifle, accurate, more than easy case extraction, and have never came close to loosening primer pockets, I bought 250 sticks of Winchester brass in a white box years ago, am still on the first 100 cases and believe they're on their third loading.

Something about sitting in a chair out in your pasture and ringing 1 and 200 yard steel shooting off a crossed leg with a lever action rifle and Lyman receiver peep.

Edit to say, my bullets are sized at 380 inch, also, with the 38-55 having thinner brass [more case capacity], pressures will be lower across the board when loading high performance ammo, and lastly, with my rifle having a 15 twist, shooting the heavies is a piece of cake.

I really need to check the bore size in mine. I have a beautiful recent production '94 Deluxe Carbine. Info from Winchester is bore = .368" and grooves = .376", +/-.02". Thank you for the details.

You're quiet welcome Sevastopol, .379 and .380 inch shoot great in my rifle with no hint of leading, good luck and happy shooting.

I use Williamiorg pressure measurement on my 30/30 and 38/55. If the fired case measures .420 ahead of the rim it’s good.
Winchester brass, Winchester LR primer.
NOE 265 grain hollow point sized to .378
Re7 at 33 grains
1972 high 1955 low 1961 ave 17es 9 as
Very accurate. The hollow point is .115 in diameter and .275 deep. Difficult to measure. Bullet length is 1.025.
Damn good load and bullet for thumping stuff. Maybe I can find a Bear this spring.
Come on Montana, sell me and my hunting partner a license 🙄

NICE!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jerry are we getting too old and stupid to remember this from a few years back?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...5-twist-rate-for-model-1894#Post13200603

Picked up a Winchester 94 legendary frontiersman in 38-55 in like New condition. Im going to have to put some ammo together as I want to make this 38-55 my goto rifle. I've already got a 348 winchester, 348 Ackley, and my 338 RCM. The little Ruger 338 RCM is a wonderful package but I want a light levergun in the winchester 94 because it will provide the performance i need and expect.

What or where is a good heavy mould to get for this 38-55? What about bullet diameter on the legendary frontiersman?–

This is my heavy for the 38-55 Legendary Frontiersman from "Accurate Molds" Tom does a great job producing excellent molds that drop to your exact specs..

I cast this one heavy at 30:1 alloy and order spec diameter .382 sizing to .380..Gas checked and lubed it weighs 320 grs & is very accurate at a tad under 1400 fps

No pressure issues so far with this load of 5744 and mag primers hoping to bump this up some to 1500 fps if it continues to behave..



L to R 275 & 320 grs

I highly recommend Sage "gators" for either of these bullets.

Well Hellfire Woodrow, old? Yes, stupid? No, I'm going with sleepy, yes, we're getting old and sleepy LOL, I had completely forgotten about that thread too, it has been said if we didn't have so many guns.................., you're Highwall not shooting the big 320gr bullet is what caused me to go out to the shop and check the twist in my LF 38-55 early yesterday morning, 15 twist on the nose, measured three times.

https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/215/.375-caliber

Dennis made some of his Truncated Cone 35cal bullets in 230gr for me in the past.

https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/216/.358-caliber

Thanks, Dinny

Man, all this talk is making me want to buy the pre safety Big Bore 94 .375 the LGS has for sale. Have been holding out for a decent pre-64 in .38-55, but I ain't getting any younger.

Do it tmitch, that M-94 30-30 I spoke about in Woodys link above is still leaning over in the corner, because of this thread, I'm going to send it off to JES for a 38-55 WCF rebore after I speak with him on available twist and bore diameter.

You guys are giving me a lot to think about with my grandpa's old rifle......

Just got back from the range lads with the 94 Big Bore. I loaded some of Woody's 275gr cast with 29gr of RL-7 with good results, just under 2" and MV of 1847-1862. They are a gas checked bullet, so I suppose that velocity is ok pressure-wise? This rifle really likes the 200gr Sierras, with groups ay under 1" (50 yards). I think I'm going to try the 275 cast on hogs at shorter ranges and rely on my scoped Marlin 375 with the 255 gr Barnes and 200 grain Sierras. What do you guys think?

I started out as a heavy bullet guy in the .375 Winchester. The 200 grain Sierra changed my mind. The 200 grain Sierra is a tough bullet and penetrates well for short bullet.
I always fall back to the 38.0 grains of Hodgdon 4198 load with the 200 grain Sierra which delivers 2,313fps and nice accuracy.
Alliant Reloder10x is one of the most consistent powders I have tried.
41.0 grains of Reloder 10 delivering satisfying accuracy and 2,250fps.
42.0 grains of Reloder 10 is just slightly less accurate at 2,280fps.
I have chronographed both loads many times and the SD's run right at 10 and 11 fps.

41.0 grains of Hodgdon Benchmark will just top the 2,300 fps goal with good accuracy. I am just not as happy overall with Benchmark or 322 in the .375 Winchester.

Good accuracy for me is anything in the 1 1/2" and under bracket. I have to work at it to shoot consistent 1 1/2" groups from the bench. If I slack my concentration a round will slip out of the group. Due to poor eyesight and in general close shots in the brush I use a large white bead. This does not help shoot small groups from the bench. I use large black poster board aim points.

As with all of the Big Bore Winchester cartridges we run out of case capacity at a COL of 2.550" just as we approach a maxim load..

You got it now Jorge, and not a Big Bore rifle and not to muddy the thread, but sending a M-94 30-30 AE to JES, his rebores are 15 twist and .377 inch, meaning I can shoot a .378/.379 inch cast lead bullet, be fun to have a spare thicket buster on the place.

I think you can experiment for all of us! Tell us how those hard casts do.

Guys help me out here. I have a .356 Win. Big Bore and I need some real world experience shared on the 220 grain Speer Flat Nose. Will it open up at 200 yards on a lung shot elk or moose if started at 2,300 fps mv. I hear they don't open and then I read they do and etc. I thought about filing the nose down a bit to promote expansion.

1AK, I can tell you a big 220gr Speer will open on a white tail buck at 156 yards when started at 2175 fps from a Marlin 35 Remington, I center punched both shoulders as he lay beside a giant white oak waiting for the doe to get back up, I heard the bullet hit the tree behind him too, I need to go dig it out, he never got up, just raised his back legs and looked like a football player lineman for about 8 yards, then down again with another hit through both hams.

The bullet expanded, but didn't loose much meat either, I'd shoot a moose, elk or big bear with that thing, yours starting faster will only be better.

When/if my LGS reopens from the virus scare, I'll try to dicker with them on the BB 94. They want $800 presently. A rebore by JES is a less expensive proposition if I had a post 64 M94 to send them. I won't do that to my pre-64s. Got me thinkin, I do have a cute little Savage 170 .30-30 carbine I picked up cheap. Wonder if that would handle the .375 Win? A BIg Bore trombone!

10-4, I don't know anything about the Savage 170, bet JES could answer that in a sec with a quick phone call.

Had a nice talk with JES tonight and he confirmed the 170 can be rebored to either .375 Win or .38-55, he's done several of each. I found it interesting that he said with his bore and chamber, they're pretty much interchangeable.

With the Jes rebores has anyone done a chamber cast?
I have cast three Winchesters and all have a rather gental entrance from the throat to the rifling.
The other big bore Winchesters are rather abrupt going from a short ball seat to the origin of the rifling.
The Lee 250 grain cast bullet unsized fills the throat and shoots well from my rifle. Kills our small deer well.
 

.375 Winchester chamber cast



 

Bullet factory



Meplat for Sierra and Bullet Factory



Lee 250gr

The bullet factory has disappeared. They were from Oz. The 225 grain bullet was as accurate as any and opened up well while retaining weight. The. bullet did not leave a lead trail and did not wad up into a ball as the Hornady FTX bullets tend to do from the .307 and .356 when you take a shoulder and cross the body cavity with a close in shot.

Nice TMitch, I've even heard of folk shooting the hot Buffalo Bore 38-55 load in their 375 Winchesters, I need to get my lever action sent.

I'm still undecided on whether to go .375 or .38-55. I'm probably overthinking it. After speaking with JES it seems the only difference in his rebores is the caliber stamp on the barrel.
When I was doing a search of .375 vs .38-55 I ran across this from Buffalo Bore

Here's part of it:
"Our 38-55 ammo is also designed to work in ALL 375 Winchester chambered rifles. ALL means ALL. Winchester, Savage, and Marlin all chambered rifles in 375 Winchester. All 375 Winchester rifles utilize chambers long enough to accept the 2.085 inch 38-55 brass, even though 375 Winchester brass is only 2.020 inches long. By using the longer 38-55 brass, we accomplish two things:

1. We get the bullet closer to the rifling’s and this creates a generally more accurate load.

2. The longer 38-55 brass, with thinner case walls than 375 Winchester brass, gives much more case capacity and this allows chamber pressures to drop immensely. i.e. our 38-55 loads give the same performance (a 250gr. bullet @ 2000 fps) as the original 375 Winchester loading, but at only 38,000 CUP instead of the industry max. pressure of 52,000 CUP that the original 375 Winchester was rated at."

I have always thought the Buffalo Bore load used A.A. 1680. Even with the long (2.125") .38-55 case there is just not enough room to push the 250 grain bullets to 2,000 fps in the 20" barrel. The Lee 250 grain bullet is seated .525" deep. This leaves a theoretical capacity of 31.5 grains of Alliant Reloder 7 and 31.0 grain of Hodgdon 4198. This leaves room for35.4 grains of A.A. 1680. Things don't quite work out like this in real life but close.
With the 250 grain Lee bullet Alliant Reloader 7 reaches maximum 34.0 grains and 1,880fps - I run out of powder capacity.

With the Lee bullet 25.0 grains of Alliant 2400 will top 1,900 fps from the 20"barrel.
28.5 grains of Hodgdon 4198 will do 1,925 fps or a little better depending on the day.
I run out of powder capacity before I reach to 2,000 fps goal with the 250 grain bullets.

Marshall Stanton used A.A. 1680 and with the weight forward advantage of the LBT style bullets 30.0 grain delivered 2,050 fps. Marshall is the only one I have seen post of consistently getting over 2,000 fps with the 250 grain bullet from the 20" barrels.

Back in the days when you could purchase them the 250grain factory loads would deliver a pretty consistent 1,850 fps. I never thought they were loaded to maximum pressure.

Several things I've always liked about 5744 are its low bulk density and clean burn with mag primers either CCI 250 or Fed 215 makes no difference....There's always plenty of bullet room with max loading either the long Highwall or short '94 case. I can push my 275 cast to 2K but only in the High wall however stopping at 1850 ish for the '94 Win. At this velocity slight pressure is evident however cases just fall out with excellent accuracy which I value more than some hyper foot seconds..

While what Buffalo Bore states is true of 38/55 brass over 375 brass, ie it has greater capacity, that comes at the expense of strength in the head area. If you goggle 375 vs 38/55 brass you’ll see images of sectioned 375, 30/30 and 38/55. Sure 38/55 provides greater capacity but I’ve found 38/55 brass shows pressure signs quite quickly too and prefer not to use 38/55 brass for high pressure loadings.

If you really want a case capacity increase and strong brass, then the next logical step is ream out the chamber to 375/356. This provides a considerable increase in case capacity. You also need to work the internals to feed the wider case. To my mind this is the big bore that Winchester should have released. For dies I use Redding 375-308 dies and a 30/30 shell holder. This would be a practical alternative for those of you considering a re-bore. Even the 375Win Lee FCD works on the 375/356 case.

The 375-356 would be quite a round but the charm of 375 is in it's low recoil to power ratio and old school design. It's pretty great as is for it's niche which is moose in heavy timber.

I prefer the 375 when using cast bullets.

I wrote up a couple of replies in Big Game reloading, here's my last: BTW< this shoots flat enough for me and my deer hunting.


After combing manuals, magazines and google searches I decided not to decrease those 200 grain Sierra loads with IMR4198, I do not understand how Ken Waters got 200 fps slower with the same model rifle though.

I read on another blog shooters using 1680, Two of them claimed that the Accurate manual went to 40 grains behind the 200 grain Sierra. I went to the Accurate manual on-line and the manual did not have any loads for the 375 Win. They must of had an older manual.

I took the rifle out with 39 grains behind the 200 grain Sierra bullet. The accuracy was there - about 2 MOA at 85 yards with iron sights and old eyes.

The velocity:
2352 fps
2401 fps
2355 fps
2374 fps
2376 fps

average 2371.6 fps - if corrected for chronograph 10' ahead of bench - 2411.6 fps (If it loses 200 fps in the first 50 yard, then maybe it lost ~ 40 fps in 10 yards.)

This is a bit faster than I expected. The accuracy is there.

The drop, velocity and energy according to the Application "Shooter"
distance POI Velocity Energy
50 yards= 2.1" 2,209 fps 2,167 ft-lb
100 yards= 3.1" 2,022 fps 1,815 ft-lb
150 yards= 2.0" 1,855 fps 1,528 ft-lb
200 yards= -1.6" 1,700 fps 1,284 ft-lb
250 yards = -8.2" 1,566 fps 1,088 ft-lb

I have quite a bit of 1680 on hand for the 17 Hornet, so I will probably use this load for my 200 grain Jacketed load.

For deer sized game the 200 Sierra would be hard to beat. Seems like we are all having good luck with 1680 and this bullet.

Anybody try 1680 with the 255gr Barnes? I'm loading for son in law's new production 38-55.

I haven't, but would like to know which one you're using: .375" or .377"?

Thank you.

I have had such good luck with RL 7 with the heavier bullets that I haven't tried.

North61, that's all I've ever used also, was just curious, thanks.