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Originally Posted by justin10mm
Funny how muh modern bullets and loadings help make the 9mm only barely comparable to what the .40 or FBI Lite 10mm was already doing 30 years ago.


You're missing the point. The 40S&W was good enough 30 years ago, so if the 9mm can do the same job with less recoil and more capacity, why not use it instead? Just like hardly anyone carries 44 Magnums for people defense. It isn't needed. Or, 30 years ago, most hunters used various 30 calibers for whitetail, now you see plenty of 243s and 260s and even 223s. Why, because the new bullet technology has made them feasible. Why deal with recoil if you don't have to?
Even your user name is an example. 20 years ago, the most popular bear defense handguns were 44 mags. Look how many have gone to 10mms.

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.45 Colt or Colt 45?


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
.45 Colt or Colt 45?
Schlitz.

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Originally Posted by Hotrod_Lincoln
Not enough ammo to spray and pray and hope they hit something. When Nashville PD switched from .38 Special S&W revolvers to 9MM Glocks I asked one of their training officers why they made the switch. He replied that it gave their guys the ability to throw away a few shots while diving for cover without having to reload. When I asked him what would happen if they hit an innocent bystander with one of those throw away shots, he mumbled something obscene and walked off. This was not a rookie I was talking to- - - - -he was a precinct supervisor!

I handload a 300 grain hard cast bullet with a .40 caliber flat meplat at 1300 FPS for my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt. That load launches bowling pins about 10 yards with a dead center hit.
Jerry




Not enough ammo....................why didn't they get some of those "Hollywood Specials".............you know, the Colt 45 Peacemakers that would shoot 16 times without having to reload.

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the weight mite be why . with all the stuff on their belt the weight would drive me nuts. a cell phone & a 12ft tape measure is to much for me

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Because most cops cannot shoot!

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Chick cops...


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Matt Dillon never missed. And he never had to double tap the bad guy.

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Originally Posted by Beaver10


Sig, then Glock took over and the rest is history...I always respected the Sheriffs departments that allowed their people to continue to carry a Colt 1911.

😎


Some still do. Wife and I always watch "Live PD" whenever it's on, I notice a 1911 every so often being carried by an officer. One city in California, Stockton maybe, most are using the 1911 along with the Sheriff of Pahrump, NV (Nye County?).

I doubt if the 1911 will ever die.


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards

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Originally Posted by javman
Originally Posted by UPhiker
We had an older gentleman on our range with a 1911 with a laser a couple of years ago who stuck his hand in front of his muzzle to see if his laser was on. For some stupid reason, he pulled the trigger. When he came off the range he was bleeding but with his nonchalant manner, I first thought he just had slide bite. Then I saw the hole in the palm of his hand. So much for the old "hit 'em with a .45 in the little finger and they're going down" tale.


My friend had bought a 45LC and we took it out with factory ammo. Asked what I thought and I told him take poke at that bowling pin right there, which was only about 15yds. He shot it and barely knocked it down and he thought he had grazed it. I told him let's go check it out. Well the slug was dead center on the bowling pin and had penetrated maybe 1/8 or so of an inch. Looked at him and said, if you don't hand load it won't do much! Now don't get me wrong it will kill someone but would better make sure you place that shot in the vitals!


Something is wrong with your ammo. Whenever I've shot bowling pins with .45 Colt factory ammo, they fly off the table. With 9mms they fall over but sometimes don't leave the table.


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by ltppowell
.45 Colt or Colt 45?
Schlitz.


Lol...1911's suck to carry day in, day out. Not mention 3 or 4 magazine pouches on a Sam Brown that already has 2 sets of cuffs, a radio, a taser, an asp and whatever else their department requires.

TV badasses and drug store lawmen can get away with barbeque rigs, but it's not what a working cop uses.

I love 1911's, but they're not the best tool in the box.


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by ltppowell
.45 Colt or Colt 45?
Schlitz.



I'd forgotten all about the Bull. The Pizza Den used to have dollar pitchers on Monday afternoon.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by mart
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I carry a .45 because they don't make a .46!


True. But they do make a 48. And a 50 and 51.



That phrase was coined before people started confusing rifles with handguns. wink


Quote
"A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'"


https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/quotations-clint-smith


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Originally Posted by jimy
Originally Posted by djs
Given modern bullets and loads, the 9mm is sufficient and penetrates better.

I have watched both cops and cowboys on tv shooting bad guys,and I'll tell ya, a cowboy with 45 colt is a deadly combination.

UNLESS his adversary is taking cover behind a wagon wheel.


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by ltppowell
.45 Colt or Colt 45?
Schlitz.


Lol...1911's suck to carry day in, day out. Not mention 3 or 4 magazine pouches on a Sam Brown that already has 2 sets of cuffs, a radio, a taser, an asp and whatever else their department requires.

TV badasses and drug store lawmen can get away with barbeque rigs, but it's not what a working cop uses.

I love 1911's, but they're not the best tool in the box.


You can say that again.


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

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Originally Posted by UPhiker
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Funny how muh modern bullets and loadings help make the 9mm only barely comparable to what the .40 or FBI Lite 10mm was already doing 30 years ago.


You're missing the point. The 40S&W was good enough 30 years ago, so if the 9mm can do the same job with less recoil and more capacity, why not use it instead? Just like hardly anyone carries 44 Magnums for people defense. It isn't needed. Or, 30 years ago, most hunters used various 30 calibers for whitetail, now you see plenty of 243s and 260s and even 223s. Why, because the new bullet technology has made them feasible. Why deal with recoil if you don't have to?
Even your user name is an example. 20 years ago, the most popular bear defense handguns were 44 mags. Look how many have gone to 10mms.


Your reasoning is flawed. One, full power 10mm has been avalible since it's introduction, part of the reason the fbi initially found it to be too powerful, leading to the eventual development of the .40. And fmj and Hardcast bullets are still the same as they've always been. The 10mm's increased popularity is due to the types of guns it is now chambered in, not any measurable improvements in ammunition. The full power loadings avalible today simply mimic the original Norma loads.

Two, sub .30 caliber, high velocity deer cartridges go back over 100 years at least to the .250 Savage. A .22, .24, .25, .26 cup and core bullet killed deer just as dead 100 years ago as it does today. Premium boutique bullets are generally not necessary to take deer sized game in small calibers.

Three, suggesting that using .40S&W in a defensive handgun is in anyway comparable to using a .44 Magnum in the same circumstance is laughable and reeks of a strawman argument. No knowledgeable individual has ever suggested that full house .44 Magnum is necessary or suitable for human defense. That's like trying to insert a watermelon into an apples to apples debate.

Four, the same technology improvements that make modern Plus P+ 9mm almost as effective as .40S&W from 30 years ago has also improved modern .40S&W. Resulting in the relative differences between the two still virtually unchanged. The argument can be made that modern 9mm is now "good enough", and if anyone wishes to stake their life on the bare minimum of just good enough, then that is up for them to decide.

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A 9mm is a "bare minimum"? The rest of your "argument" isn't worth responding to until you take a class in Reading Comprehension.

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Actually, the 10mm was not too "powerful". It was too powerful for the FBI to pass qualifications, and it was designed for them. Hence, the .40mm "short" (S&W) was developed.


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