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What Length Upper? #14706835 03/25/20
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..Do you prefer for home defense? I've been shooting a 16" mid length Troy Industries upper but haven't handled anything shorter. I like the Troy as it stands so considering a shorter build dedicated to the home defense role. I see the obvious handling advantages of running a shorter barrel in a pistol config. but with shorter length comes more blast and noise(does it really matter indoors?!). Is there a sweet spot? Distances anticipated run from indoor to close outdoor(50-70yrds).

.


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14706906 03/25/20
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I personally have been shooting my PSA 12 inch pistol with SBA3 butt, and it is very smooth. I put in a Geissele trigger from the start. Only failure was due to a bad acs mag that would not feed the last round. Last round would lock open with a live round popped out of the mag. New GI mag worked 100%. I am going to try a Magpul 20 tomorrow. Very handy with a 3.5X ACOG. Mine has the factory can and I guess that directs noise forrwad. It really has a bark.
I wont say it is the ultimate in home defense, but I really like the size.

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14706961 03/25/20
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For my uses, 14.5" with a red dot is the sweet spot, do all length for me short of something intended for long range work..............no real best, mainly personal preference, IMO.

MM

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14707014 03/25/20
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14.5" is what I keep on standby. It hits the sweet spot for me.

I have others in 10.5", 11.5", 16", 20".

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14707050 03/25/20
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I have a 10.5 5.56 AR pistol and 8.5 300 BO AR pistol



Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
IC-A

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: MontanaMarine] #14707249 03/25/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
14.5" is what I keep on standby. It hits the sweet spot for me.

I have others in 10.5", 11.5", 16", 20".



Is there much difference in recoil pulse, noise, muzzle movement between them? I'd hazard a guess there'd be a noticeable difference in muzzle blast between the 10.5 and the 16"?


"dis is for all zee farm animals you have raped, Monsieur Goat Buggerer!" 340boy
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: Terryk] #14707259 03/25/20
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Originally Posted by Terryk
I personally have been shooting my PSA 12 inch pistol with SBA3 butt, and it is very smooth. I put in a Geissele trigger from the start. Only failure was due to a bad acs mag that would not feed the last round. Last round would lock open with a live round popped out of the mag. New GI mag worked 100%. I am going to try a Magpul 20 tomorrow. Very handy with a 3.5X ACOG. Mine has the factory can and I guess that directs noise forrwad. It really has a bark.
I wont say it is the ultimate in home defense, but I really like the size.



That's the thing, the noise from the shorties. I don't have suppressor and probably won't be getting one for a while if I decide to pony up the dollars and paper work. I want this set up to be somewhat amenable to the wife and other family members if they are in need to repel borders when I'm not around.


"dis is for all zee farm animals you have raped, Monsieur Goat Buggerer!" 340boy
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14707291 03/25/20
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Originally Posted by SBTCO
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
14.5" is what I keep on standby. It hits the sweet spot for me.

I have others in 10.5", 11.5", 16", 20".



Is there much difference in recoil pulse, noise, muzzle movement between them? I'd hazard a guess there'd be a noticeable difference in muzzle blast between the 10.5 and the 16"?


The 10.5" is noticeably louder.

As far as recoil impulse, it doesn't really seem much different. One thing to add to that is that I have been using the H3 buffer in all my carbine buttstocks lately. It smooths all of them out very well.

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14707731 03/26/20
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I read the flash hider does not reduce flash or lower recoil. It's design is to send the noise forward.
I can say with varget I can see a big fireball. I shoot mine at an outdoor covered building, and it does echo. I think it is louder than an A2 flash hider on a 16.
I don't think the noise is prohibitive, but noise is the trade off for utility.

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14707827 03/26/20
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I'd def get a suppressor if I was considering indoors with a rifle round.


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708046 03/26/20
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10.5” or 11.5” is the sweet spot for me with AR pistols. They are the perfect size for any home protection/CQB type situation imho.

Reno


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708086 03/26/20
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Home defense?
That depends entirely where home is.

I live way out in the country and my nearest neighbor is over 600 yards from me with my 2nd closest neighbor being 1.6 miles away.
My home defense weapon is a full power FAL with 165 grain elk killers in it.
Why?

Why not!
I shoot it well, I have no one else in my home and I can and have have hit running deer with this rifle at distances as close as 4 yards and as far as 375 yards. So I don't have a gun strictly for "home defense". I just have some guns.

Any gun will do if you can use it well. Knowing a bit about fighting is far more important then the tool you use in the fight.

Last edited by szihn; 03/26/20.
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708292 03/26/20
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For pistol length, 11.5 is the sweet spot.

Carbines at 14.5 + attached muzzle device makes it legal

Rifles are 20” for me.

I have one pistol, a couple carbines and a couple rifles.

The pistol, a piston 11.5” with a can, covers just about everything, though.


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: Terryk] #14708293 03/26/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Originally Posted by SBTCO
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
14.5" is what I keep on standby. It hits the sweet spot for me.

I have others in 10.5", 11.5", 16", 20".



Is there much difference in recoil pulse, noise, muzzle movement between them? I'd hazard a guess there'd be a noticeable difference in muzzle blast between the 10.5 and the 16"?


The 10.5' is noticeably louder.

As far as recoil impulse, it doesn't really seem much different. One thing to add to that is that I have been using the H3 buffer in all my carbine buttstocks lately. It smooths all of them out very well.



I'll look into the H3, thanks.

Originally Posted by Terryk
I read the flash hider does not reduce flash or lower recoil. It's design is to send the noise forward.
I can say with varget I can see a big fireball. I shoot mine at an outdoor covered building, and it does echo. I think it is louder than an A2 flash hider on a 16.
I don't think the noise is prohibitive, but noise is the trade off for utility.


I've wondered how those work. But yeah, loud is loud.


"dis is for all zee farm animals you have raped, Monsieur Goat Buggerer!" 340boy
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708327 03/26/20
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You can find the H3 buffers at Midway (I've got Colt and AR-Stoner), or you can buy the tungsten weights, and adjust your standard carbine buffer. I've done it both ways, very easy.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=H3+buffer&userItemsPerPage=48

https://pur-tungsten.com/product/tungsten-recoil-buffer-weights/

Re: What Length Upper? [Re: szihn] #14708341 03/26/20
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Understand where you're coming from Steve, and I do have bigger stuff, but I live in a small house in the thick woods of NW. Mt., slightly "tighter" circumstances and shorter ranges. Also my wife would be remiss if I handed her an M1A or the 06, and said "have at it". I think she'll like the poodle shooter mo beda.


"dis is for all zee farm animals you have raped, Monsieur Goat Buggerer!" 340boy
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708651 03/26/20
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I’ve moved through a few houses with ARs and here’s my takeaways:
-Short rifles help tremendously moving in and out of vehicles.
-Short rifles help tremendously moving in and around other guys with rifles.

And when folks think of “CQB” they look around and see short rifles, without considering that those short rifles are also a byproduct of their users having to arrive at a house with other guys and move around them.

For one guy moving through a house mostly by himself, a 16” gun isn’t as much of a hindrance as you’d think. At least IME. A shorter gun is easier, but certainly not necessary.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708730 03/26/20
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[quote=SBTCO but with shorter length comes more blast and noise(does it really matter indoors?!)[/quote]

SBTCO,

Matters much more indoors than out in the open... It depends upon how small the room is and wall construction (concrete and block are the worst), but one shot from a 5.56 pistol in an enclosed room without a suppressor or hearing protection will probably result in serious hearing damage.

I've got 6.5 and a 30 caliber suppressors, they really attenuate the 5.56 muzzle noise (The blast but not the supersonic crack).

I do not have one, but there are suppressors that are designed to be pinned & spot welded to bring your barrel length out to or past 16 inches so that you do not need an SBR Stamp.

Jerry


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14708785 03/26/20
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Have you considered a PCC? I've a gen 2 sig MPX with the brace. Thing is amazing. Very accurate. Out to 70 feet it's one hole if I put the effort into it. I shot between 1000 and 1500 rounds before cleaning and it still wasn't that dirty. Very easy to move with.

For home defense, if it gets to that, I'll be using the mpx.

I


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Re: What Length Upper? [Re: SBTCO] #14710041 03/26/20
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Originally Posted by SBTCO
..Do you prefer for home defense? I've been shooting a 16" mid length Troy Industries upper but haven't handled anything shorter. I like the Troy as it stands so considering a shorter build dedicated to the home defense role. I see the obvious handling advantages of running a shorter barrel in a pistol config. but with shorter length comes more blast and noise(does it really matter indoors?!). Is there a sweet spot? Distances anticipated run from indoor to close outdoor(50-70yrds).

.


I have 2 20" uppers. One is an M-16 look alike and the other is a fluted heavy barrel. Neither one leave the safe. I have taken my 16" mid lengths to the range 3 times as much as anything else. I have some 14.5 mid lengths and some 14.5 carbine lengths. They get out but not like the 16" mid lengths. They are my go to rifles. I'm still haven't invested in a pistol. I just not in love with them, yet.

kwg

Last edited by kwg020; 03/26/20.

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