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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Beaver10
bsa,

I likely only have 2 rifles that would meet or exceed the sub capabilities many of us once thought was true for every rig we owned with a 3 shot group being expanded to 10 or more.

A Scott Weichel build 7wsm and a Ryan Pierce build in 6.5x47 Lap.

Everything else, custom build, or an old factory rifle I own is a 1 to 2 MOA producer.

I’m quite happy with any rifle that can hold 10 at the above, being I’m typically not sinking anymore than 3 rounds into an elk at good distances...If I’m going past 1 round, it’s to ensure I’ve firmly anchored him to the dirt.

😎



Thats fair enough my friend. With this also being a tactical rifle forum, there should be a focus on precision built and special purpose rifles here. I know it has been said that this isn't the hunting rifle forums and we aren't really talking about hunting rifle accuracy here. We are talking about rifles that are built to shoot moa or better 10 shot groups (on average) here. Now, I've taken it one step further and have submitted almost all of my rifles here in this thread, even my lightweight hunting rifles. Its not to brag, but to show that its possible for even hunting type rifles to compete in this challenge. None of my rifles are extremely heavy pigs, well except for some of my AR's. I think the heaviest rifles I have entered weigh in the neighborhood of 10.5 pounds. Those NF scopes are heavy... Although, 2 of my lightest hunting rifles shot very well. They are very consistent shooters. So much in fact that I'll pull them out at our local centerfire matches, just to f with the guys....:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I shot that with a skinny barreled steven's 200. It shoots this event like this:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I pull these rifles out and show them because I like to prove that a good hunting weight rifle will shoot, if it is built right. I do my own glass bedding and trigger work, also work up my loads. I'm not that particular/anal when it comes to working up loads and messing with brass. If I was a highly competitive shooter, it would be different. As it is, I use plain ol RCBS fl sizing dies that you can buy at walmart. Nothing special. I also don't weight sort my brass, but I do make sure my dies are set up for precision. Meaning they produce extremely straight ammo... There's fun in this shoot/challenge. To me it's about trying to make every rifle I own shoot MOA or less. Every once in a while I see a FNG post something about having a "sub 1/2 moa rifle when they do their part" and I invite them to join in on the fun. After all, this shoot is supposed to be all in fun anyway. Its about shooting. The more you shoot, the better you get. And just for the record, I don't post all of my targets. Here's one from yesterday:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I was disappointed in how me and my rifle fell apart on the second group. This CTR is almost at the exact same round count (300) as the second one I bought that did not shoot well when I got it. A simple glass bedding job improved that rifle's accuracy big time. Here's how my second CTR shot when I got it:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
The culprit with a lot of Tikka rifles is the fd up non integral recoil lug system they have:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The action of my second CTR actually wobbled around in the stock when I got it. The rifle was funny, as it was great for the first 3 shots, then it would start stringing them. It was no bueno!! However, after glass bedding it, it shoots like this now:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
This is the point I try to get across, but a lot of times it falls on deaf ears... Guys that have bought rifles from me understand what I'm talking about... To shoot this challenge you need a rifle that is up to the task. One that is solid and has a good foundation such as proper bedding, trigger, scope and load. I also believe you need that in a good hunting rifle as well. Whether its steel, paper or critter, you need to make every shot count..


L-train now doubt you can tune a factory rifle, point I’m trying to make not everyone is like you/us we are tinkerers. I seen it first hand at big shooting ranges guys show up with a $299 special 2-3 different boxes of ammo shoot what they think is a group, call it day. While we would be packing up trying to figure out why the rifle shot like chit. For the most part that’s a lot of guys here.


I generally agree with you buddy. You are right about tuning a rifle. I find it pointless to shoot if it's not properly "tuned". I'd like to believe you are wrong about a lot of guys here though. I'm hoping they see things more like we do. Start with a good foundation and shoot good groups. Seems to work 99% of the time. With my CTR, I can see that the groups are going haywire, but I figured that would happen after a while. I purposely left that rifle unbedded to see how many rounds downrange it would take to loosen the sumbiotch up. Yep, right around 300. Now, the hunters that swear their Tikka's shoot 1/2 moa groups, either have their rifles set up properly and glass bedded good or they just haven't shot more than about 300 rounds down range with said rifles. This is the second CTR that has taken a chidt at around that mark. My Superlite was that way right out of the box. Yes, it may be good enough for some guys, but not hardly good enough for me. I won't put up with an ill shooting rifle. Guys wonder why they get those weird "flyers" or it's stringing more than usual, well, theres a reason for that...Take a look at the inside of the stock on this CTR:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Those voids are going to get filled in. I'll use an epoxy that hardens like steel and it's quick:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Then I'll use Devcon 10110 to skim bed this one, just like I did my #2 CTR. I'll also replace the soft recoil lug that they put in the T3x rifles, with a good stainless lug:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

When I tore the rifle apart the other night, this is what I found. Its obvious the rifle has been rocking back and forth on that lug:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/NjxC3am.jpg[/img]
Exactly like my other CTR when I got it. My sako was the same exact way. Right out of the box it was shooting horrendous groups, but a little epoxy cured the problem. Its now one of my most consistent shooting rifles. If it had a 10 round detachable box magazine, I'd consider using it in my 1000 yard shoot coming up in April. I'll most likely glass bed my CTR though and rock with it... She's a good shooter, but accuracy has been degrading the last 100 rounds or so... Time to fix it...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Originally Posted by MikeS
Rost495 is exactly right. I re- started irons shooting with match irons at 55, this time in the Palma venue and was able to make High Master LR with the .308 and 155s 2 years after my 1st 1000 yard shot. Not being intimidated and experimenting to find what works for you and your eyes will get it done.
I am fortunate enough to shoot with some of the country's best LR shooters here in Phoenix which is a huge help. I have pretty poor uncorrected vision, floaters etc. , but a good optometrist.
Give a try, it's a lot of fun.

PS: trifocals were suggested for me in my 40s.



Thats about the time I had trifocals... 42 or so IIRC.

FYI Floaters, bad as it sounds they are in the gel of the eyeball and if I found them settling to the sight while I had to shoot I started to just thump the back of my noggin... no kidding they usually moved out of the way for at least the entire rapid fire string then... slow fire might take a few thumps if they were stubborn.

Can't see the front sight post on an AR. Make sure you are using an issue size one then. And deal with the sight picture. But I shot .037 wide one through about our early 40s when we quit shooting for other reasons. FYI. If shooting issue size make sure its tapered though.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Thanks for the floaters tip! I also find they are fewer the more hydrated you are.


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Definitely on the hydration and for the prone slow strings especially in the heat used to drink fruit juice not sugar.... for the life of me I'm in the middle of a welding project and can't think... Fructose maybe? Natural sugar. About 15 or 20 minutes prior to a string. Seemed to make my vision last longer rather than having issues around shot 13 or 14 outward...

You have some good shooters in that area!


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Yeah, the last 4 shots of a 20 round string are where my eyes can fade. I'll try the fruit juice, been using Gatorade along with making sure I'm breathing well as soon as the frame goes down.


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Gatorade we drank cut 50% w water. And it still did nothing. Well other than hydrate the body which is important as heck of course.

good luck.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Alright, to get this thing back on track. It was a great day to be shooting today. Got out of the house and went to the range with a buddy and his new Ruger American predator 6.5 cm. I was wanting to make sure the glass bedding helped my CTR. Even though I won't be shooting my longrange event this month because of this damn virus thing!!

Tikka T3X CTR 6.5 creedmoor (24" barrel), NF SHV 5-20x56, handload of 140gr Hornady ELD Match bullets and H4350. Handloads are true (less than .003" TIR):
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Target set at 100 yards:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Target with 2 10 shot groups on the same paper, as per rules:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Target with caliper over one group for size reference, as per rules:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Yeah, I was pizzed when I pulled the 8th shot out of that one!!

AVG MOA: .544

It is very apparent that the glass bedding and new stainless steel recoil lug helped the accuracy of this rifle. If you guys are shooting, print up some of these targets and shoot them. Its good to know your rifle is capable of this kind of accuracy. Be safe and stay healthy out there!!!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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I carried my old LaRue pencil barreled gun out today and about 25 rounds of ammo that it likes. Shot the challenge for something different to do. So I start off pretty well for me.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Then I was settling in to fire the next group and I touched one off before I was ready, it landed low left in the picture. I figured well it’s not too far out so I carried on and pulled another one way out high left to ruin my day.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
I may get out again tomorrow and try again.

Last edited by TWR; 04/04/20.
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Looking great for a skinny barrel. My stevens 200 really surprises me for a lightweight hunting rifle.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.

Last edited by 79S; 04/04/20.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
IC B3

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Originally Posted by 79S
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.


Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 79S
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.


Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?


It’s on my AR tactical rifle. Great trigger as well.. I have 2 AR15’s, one for service rifle the other for AR tactical class


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 79S
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.


Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?


It’s on my AR tactical rifle. Great trigger as well.. I have 2 AR15’s, one for service rifle the other for AR tactical class


Thats cool. I took my 6WOA to the range today for my buddy to shoot, while i worked up loads for his new rifle. It was fun watching him shoot that rifle. He was like a fat kid in a candy shop. I told him to slow down and shoot a group. He said, its just too fun to keep pulling the trigger. He finally slowed down and shot a 3/4" 5 shot group and said, "damn this thing shoots better than my predator!!!"


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Yes that larue is allowed in service rifle but in AR tactical class we are held to a 4.5lb trigger as well. I kind of threw the service rifle together to shoot in 100yd reduced matches the club held.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by rost495
Irons dont' shoot that much worse than optics if you shoot em enough.

The only irons I'm used to shooting is my rimfires at 50 yards. They do alright.. Here's a group from my new rifle before I zeroed it. It has potential:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

My model 52B shoots as well:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'd like to get some sights like those and put them on an AR and try it at 100 yards. Would be interesting, even though I have to switch over to my right shoulder to shoot irons... wink I've had to shoot deer at 600 yards from my right shoulder. No biggie..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil
[Linked Image]
Target at 100yds
[Linked Image]
First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why.
[Linked Image]
Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
[Linked Image]

Continued



Last edited by 79S; 04/05/20.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Originally Posted by DubThomas
Dadgum hot barrel and mirage!



Break your team shot groups into five... or 3... or 2... Letting your barrel cool between groups.

Point is to see how well your rifle does with ten shots at the same point of aim. Twice...

The folks at that say stuff like “I’ll never shoot more than three shots at a game animal” are missing the entire point. Three shots does not make a rifle a sub MOA rifle.

John


Amen John....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Originally Posted by 79S
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil
[Linked Image]
Target at 100yds
[Linked Image]
First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why.
[Linked Image]
Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
[Linked Image]

Continued



I had to turn my laptop on its side to see the pics.. grin How did you shoot? Average moa? If you are getting weird flyers with lever, is it really a good option? I will run a slow accurate load, vs a fast inaccurate load every day of the week and twice on sunday. I hate flyers buddy. Especially when they are "weird" flyers...On my last entry, the second group (the one on the right), I put 9 shots in almost the same hole. That 8th shot I saw myself pull, right as I pulled the trigger. That Tikka t3x CTR is a shoooting sumbitch now buddy. After properly bedding and the new stainless recoil lug. Its the little chidt that makes a big difference... I'd be a little concerned about the weird flyers you are getting, especially if that is a competition rifle you are showing here...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Continued
Target 3 77gr Sierra otm, rl15
[Linked Image]
Target 4 75gr hornady eld-m with AR-comp don’t know what really happened here. Vertical string, maybe hot barrel doubtful. So i shot another group and it was a lot better.
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 79S
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil
[Linked Image]
Target at 100yds
[Linked Image]
First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why.
[Linked Image]
Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
[Linked Image]

Continued



I had to turn my laptop on its side to see the pics.. grin How did you shoot? Average moa? If you are getting weird flyers with lever, is it really a good option? I will run a show accurate load, vs a fast inaccurate load every day and twice on sunday. I hate flyers buddy. Especially when they are "weird" flyers...


Yeah I’m doing this on my iPhone and it’s just how these pictures load for some reason. I don’t use lever much anymore. I just loaded these up cause there is a thread talking about lever. If your banging steel at 600yds and don’t give a chit about groups then lever is your powder.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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