24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickock45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
Did you check to see exactly how/why it was able to happen ? It's certainly not the norm or at all common for a Mossberg to do that. Was the shell stop portion of the trigger guard broken, deformed or missing ? How about the extended tab on the bottom front of the elevator ? All check out ? Did you compare parts with another Mossberg that functions correctly ? I haven't seen that particular Hickock45 video but have seen enough flubs on his other videos with various guns to know he's a boob not well versed in the operation or mechanics of many of the guns he tests.

ARIC

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickok45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
OK I watched the Hickock45 video. I was right, the only time he had one get stuck through the elevator was a boob move on his part where he dropped one in through the ejection port NOSE DOWN. No malfunctions of the gun occurred in that video. All rounds fed through the magazine functioned perfectly as did all dropped into the ejection port horizontally. It is possible to "boob move" an 870 by getting one caught between the lifter and bolt as I described in my previous post too.

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 68,922
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 68,922
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Mossberg needs to narrow the skeletonized elevator so shells cannot partially fall through and jam up the gun.
I personally have two Mossberg 500's that I've owned for many years. Both have had thousands of rounds pumped through them with zero malfunctions. I think you are cursed.

I watched it happen to Hickok45. Same exact thing. Shell fell through the skeletonized elevator as he was pumping forward after pumping backward. It was only stopped by its rim from falling to the ground, jamming up his Mossberg pump shotgun. He just nonchalantly stopped what he was doing, and fidgeted with it, working it back up into the action area, then shucked it in, with little comment. He doesn't like to bad mouth the products he's shooting.

Remington was smart to use a solid elevator, lacking skeletonization.
Never seen it happen personally. Can't make mine do it and never had a customer come in with that complaint in the four years I worked in general gunsmithing full time. I suppose it's possible they've changed something in the action since then that could cause it but that seems unlikely.. There simply is not enough room in the action between the shell stop at the front of the trigger guard and the extended tab on the lifter for a 2 3/4" shell to rotate and allow the nose to fall through on either of my 500's. Two guys I work with now have shockwaves and both run perfectly. As to the 870 lifter being superior, obviously you've never seen a shell get trapped between the lifter and the bottom of the bolt when it wasn't fully seated in the magazine and clicked in ahead of the shell stop before releasing it.


That would be operator error. Not the fault of the 870
I’ve been ruining 870 Remington’s since I was 16. That’s 44 years and I’ve never had it happen. Not once.
Like I said, my 870 Tac 14 runs flawlessly. Even with the Mini Shells.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Mossberg needs to narrow the skeletonized elevator so shells cannot partially fall through and jam up the gun.
I personally have two Mossberg 500's that I've owned for many years. Both have had thousands of rounds pumped through them with zero malfunctions. I think you are cursed.

I watched it happen to Hickok45. Same exact thing. Shell fell through the skeletonized elevator as he was pumping forward after pumping backward. It was only stopped by its rim from falling to the ground, jamming up his Mossberg pump shotgun. He just nonchalantly stopped what he was doing, and fidgeted with it, working it back up into the action area, then shucked it in, with little comment. He doesn't like to bad mouth the products he's shooting.

Remington was smart to use a solid elevator, lacking skeletonization.
Never seen it happen personally. Can't make mine do it and never had a customer come in with that complaint in the four years I worked in general gunsmithing full time. I suppose it's possible they've changed something in the action since then that could cause it but that seems unlikely.. There simply is not enough room in the action between the shell stop at the front of the trigger guard and the extended tab on the lifter for a 2 3/4" shell to rotate and allow the nose to fall through on either of my 500's. Two guys I work with now have shockwaves and both run perfectly. As to the 870 lifter being superior, obviously you've never seen a shell get trapped between the lifter and the bottom of the bolt when it wasn't fully seated in the magazine and clicked in ahead of the shell stop before releasing it.


That would be operator error. Not the fault of the 870
I’ve been ruining 870 Remington’s since I was 16. That’s 44 years and I’ve never had it happen. Not once.
Like I said, my 870 Tac 14 runs flawlessly. Even with the Mini Shells.
Yep and Hickock45's boob move with the shockwave was operator error too. I've been running Mossberg 500's for 40 years and have never done it. A buddy of mine has an 870 Tac 14 and it does not run dependably with the 2" shells.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickok45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
OK I watched the Hickock45 video. I was right, the only time he had one get stuck through the elevator was a boob move on his part where he dropped one in through the ejection port NOSE DOWN. No malfunctions of the gun occurred in that video. All rounds fed through the magazine functioned perfectly as did all dropped into the ejection port horizontally. It is possible to "boob move" an 870 by getting one caught between the lifter and bolt as I described in my previous post too.

Could you post the video so I can see if it's the one I was talking about?

IC B2

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickok45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
OK I watched the Hickock45 video. I was right, the only time he had one get stuck through the elevator was a boob move on his part where he dropped one in through the ejection port NOSE DOWN. No malfunctions of the gun occurred in that video. All rounds fed through the magazine functioned perfectly as did all dropped into the ejection port horizontally. It is possible to "boob move" an 870 by getting one caught between the lifter and bolt as I described in my previous post too.

Could you post the video so I can see if it's the one I was talking about?
Look it up yourself. His son was in it and they had three shockwaves for testing.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651
I’ve seen the 870 malfunction BH described quite a few times. But it’s operator error.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,715
C
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
C
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,715
For many years now, pump shotguns have been made with the price point market in mind. I grew up with a 37 Ithaca made in 1948. It was always flawless in function. The pump guns around, for the most part, were 50’s vintage or older’37’s and ‘12’s as well as early 870’s. Compared to those guns, the “price point “ guns from the mid to late sixties on are, by and large, junk. While the idea of a little shotgun like that has appeal, I’d much sooner go with a Beretta or Benelli automatic in that format, or even a good sxs than one of today’s pumps.


Mathew 22: 37-39



Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Every mass produced gun made today is built to a price point. Doesn't mean they aren't good guns and beyond a doubt there were lots of guns produced prior to 1960 that were junk. There were also without a doubt many shotguns produced pre 1960 that were less durable and dependable than many of today's price point pump guns.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickok45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
OK I watched the Hickock45 video. I was right, the only time he had one get stuck through the elevator was a boob move on his part where he dropped one in through the ejection port NOSE DOWN. No malfunctions of the gun occurred in that video. All rounds fed through the magazine functioned perfectly as did all dropped into the ejection port horizontally. It is possible to "boob move" an 870 by getting one caught between the lifter and bolt as I described in my previous post too.

Could you post the video so I can see if it's the one I was talking about?
Look it up yourself. His son was in it and they had three shockwaves for testing.

I'd love to see it, but as I recall it was a full length version of the Mossberg pump gun that he was shooting when he had the same issue I had, illustrated in the image I provided in my first post here.

IC B3

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Blackheart, did you see the picture I posted? That's a full sized 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge shell, and I didn't stage that picture. It happened three times just from racking the action with a loaded magazine. The third time it happened, I laid it down in my gun case and took a picture of it to show my gunsmith. Same thing happened to Hickok45 while reviewing a Mossberg pump shotgun. If it were impossible, it would not have happened three times to me, and been captured once in a Hickok45 video. He was using standard 2 and 3/4" shells, too.
OK I watched the Hickock45 video. I was right, the only time he had one get stuck through the elevator was a boob move on his part where he dropped one in through the ejection port NOSE DOWN. No malfunctions of the gun occurred in that video. All rounds fed through the magazine functioned perfectly as did all dropped into the ejection port horizontally. It is possible to "boob move" an 870 by getting one caught between the lifter and bolt as I described in my previous post too.

Could you post the video so I can see if it's the one I was talking about?
Look it up yourself. His son was in it and they had three shockwaves for testing.

I'd love to see it, but as I recall it was a full length version of the Mossberg pump gun that he was shooting.
I don't have the time or desire to go through all of them. I watched two of Hickocks videos on the shockwave. The one previously mentioned and another where they tested a 20 gauge version. There were no malfunctions in either video. You either had a lemon or it was operator error. I've seen my share of lemons from about every manufacturer. Including Remington 870's. Mossberg pumps normally work well and continue to do so for a long time.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
I was about certain that was the wrong video, and I just watched to to make sure. Yep, wrong video. The one with the three Shockwaves isn't the video where he has the same issue I had with my Shockwave. In the correct video, it was a full stocked version of a Mossberg pump shotgun.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
PS No user error. I was just pumping the action to load a round into the chamber. On the forward motion, before it reached the chamber, it turned downward and the face of the shell dropped straight down while I tried to close the action on the shell rim, which was blocking closure. I then looked at the gun and saw what you see in the picture I provided.

I've had pump shotguns since I was seventeen. In fact, I had a Mossberg 500 back then. Never had a problem with it.

PPS The Mossberg 500 in question is still in the family. I sold it to my brother in law at some point, and then he sold it to his son, my nephew, who's a cop. Still works great.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,167
Sounds like you just got a lemon. It happens sometimes. My bedside gun is a Mossberg 500 with 18.5" smooth bore slug barrel that I bought back in '97. It has been through thousands of rounds since then with no malfunctions or breakdowns of any kind. It wouldn't be my bedside gun if I didn't trust it.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
Could be, but it turned me off to the Mossberg Shockwave. Happy with the Remington Tac-14.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Not saying there are no lemon 590s out there, but the Marines are not reporting this malfunction and they run the fuque out of their 590s.


“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,264
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,264
good luck, my bud had the remington pump with I think magpul fore end, neither of us could hold on to the forearm with 23/4 buckshot, put a strap on forearm, broke it in 3 shots, I got the remington semi auto, was fine and fun but tried to put a flashlight on it, hit my thumb with the streamlight switch, cant remember who made it but it has to come back a way for you to reach flashlight switch, after firing twice that was enough with the flashlight, had a lot of fun blowing up beer cans, coke cans water bottles,., but sold the gun as its impractical, I guess it would be a good truck gun for daytime, no easy way I could see to put a usable light on it I can see. If its anywhere near your hand its gonna hurt. Would not touch the pump model of any variety.


Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,057
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by jimmyp
good luck, my bud had the remington pump with I think magpul fore end, neither of us could hold on to the forearm with 23/4 buckshot, put a strap on forearm, broke it in 3 shots, I got the remington semi auto, was fine and fun but tried to put a flashlight on it, hit my thumb with the streamlight switch, cant remember who made it but it has to come back a way for you to reach flashlight switch, after firing twice that was enough with the flashlight, had a lot of fun blowing up beer cans, coke cans water bottles,., but sold the gun as its impractical, I guess it would be a good truck gun for daytime, no easy way I could see to put a usable light on it I can see. If its anywhere near your hand its gonna hurt. Would not touch the pump model of any variety.


This is the forend I have coming for the shockwave.

[Linked Image from flashlightdealer.com]

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 130,945
Originally Posted by JLimbo
[This is the forend I have coming for the shockwave.[Linked Image from flashlightdealer.com]

Like.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,145
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,145
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by David_Walter
Looking to acquire an “other” for the camper.

Shockwave or Remington 870 TAC 14?

I like the top safety on the Mosssberg and it’s easy to modify for th Aquila short shells.

Who has either? Pluses or minuses?

I've had both. Sold the Mossberg after the third time a live shot shell fell through the skeletonized elevator, jamming up the gun, in the process of racking the pump action. Then I went out and bought a Remington Tac-14. No problems with the Remington. Only drawback to the Remington is one less round in the mag, but you can get a plus one for it.

Here's what kept happening to the Mossberg:

[Linked Image]


Never had that happen, but my Mossberg's extractor wouldn't grip the shell rim and would leave the empty in the chamber despite racking the action. Twice, after replacing the first extractor. The top tang safety also went tits up on me and the components of it needed to be replaced.

I went to an 870 Marine (not a TAC 14 mind you) and haven't looked back. It has worked flawlessly, though I admittedly do not shoot it much.



Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
122 members (16penny, 257_X_50, 338Rules, 444Matt, 32_20fan, 15 invisible), 1,835 guests, and 877 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,726
Posts18,400,684
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.080s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9117 MB (Peak: 1.0753 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 07:06:12 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS