Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JB - know of any surveys of game wardens?

John,

Awhile back I read an article about a survey done of game wardens. The subject was the game wardens' choice for elk hunting cartridges.

If I remember correctly, the most popular cartridge identified was the .243 Winchester. From what I recall, this surprised the author.

I believe there was some speculation as to the reasons why. For example, the game wardens see a lot elk and may have a higher percentage of shot opportunities. States may also have a preference for candidates with backgrounds in biology, which may lead to a greater understanding of elk anatomy, which was viewed as a benefit for shot placement, etc.

Anyway, do you know of this "survey" or any others along these lines, of game wardens and cartridge preference?

Thanks,

Jason

edit - for typos

Interesting! Unfortunately, I've never heard of that one.

Did know a long-time game warden here in Montana, who was often assigned by the game department to shoot haystack-raiding elk in the winter. (This was long before the so-called "shoulder season" solution appeared.) His favorite was the .220 Swift.

A bit tangential to your question, but I was blessed to stalk red deer stags in Scotland for many years. After the stag season the gamekeepers would cull up to the season’s unfilled quota of stags and a sizable number of hinds (females). Of course these aren’t as large as elk, but by far their favorite cartridge was “the two-four-three.”

They aren’t keen on recoil. I remember one telling me about the time a client made a bad shot with a 7mm Remington. As is their practice after a bad shot, the gamekeeper took the client’s rifle to kill the beast. He told me, “That thing knocked my shoulder near to Aberdeen!”

The late John Kingsley-Heath, the famous African professional hunter, preferred the .243 for shooting baited leopards, both for his own use and for his clients, for more than one reason: The light recoil allowed precise shot placement, 100-grain bullets expanded easily on the relatively light game, and didn't wreck the hide like larger cartridges.

Well, if the .243 is good then the .257 Roberts must be sublime! LOL!

The 243 is pretty popular with the locals in South Africa.

Yes, it is.

And even some visiting hunters have used it effectively on game supposedly far out of the .243 class.

A good friend who lives in West Virginia had been a life-long hunter, but didn't start hunting elsewhere until he was close to 50. He started making more money about then, and these days goes to Africa every year, often for several weeks. Eventually his wife decided she wanted to start hunting too, and instead of starting her out on hard-hunted WV whitetails, he took her to South Africa.

By then he knew enough to not believe in the "African game is super-tough" myth, and worked her up from a .22 rimfire to a .243, handloaded with 85-grain Nosler Partitions. She took three animals with one shot each, an impala, gemsbok and blue wildebeest. In the U.S. the impala would be considered OK .243 game, since they're about the size of an average whitetail, but gemsbok typically weigh 450-500 pounds and wildebeest 600-650, and are considered a couple of the really tough plains game. Yet they all fell shortly after taking a bullet close behind the shoulder. None were shot over 150 yards away, but there it is.

Thanks all, and John in particular, for responding.

I wish that I had that article. I've exhausted my online (Google) search skills. One of those situations where I wish I would have printed, or photocopied, the article and put it in a folder on my bookshelf

The motivation for finding the article/survey was to compare the opinion of a somewhat known set of hunters (game wardens) to some of the general/popular opinions of cartridge effectiveness on medium game.

My assumption is that those who have personally used, or have seen used, cartridges like the .243 Winchester (or similar) don't need anyone to tell them that it simply works. On elk, or similar size animals.

Jason

We have a lady hunter that's hunted with us for over 20 years, usually comes twice a year for one week of hunting, .243 user very good shot, always gets a Whitetail buck,and a exotic, this year she shot Gemsbok, at 314 yrds behind the ear---DRT, she's 76 years old, and is one of the best lady pistol shooters I have ever seen,I have a picture of her and her Gemsbok here some where. Rio7

That’s awesome RIo7.

I love seeing “seniors” who are healthy and active, and I love seeing women who can shoot and hunt.

She’s a badass on two levels!

Wayne Van Zwoll in "Elk and Elk Hunting" Chapter 12 discusses surveys extensively. Not only does he discuss his own annual survey but he references a 1939 survey by Washington Department of Game unearthed by Ray Croswell

4th point,

I don’t remember a survey, but I do distinctly remember reading that certain game wardens personally used the .243 on elk. I also remember reading that one very popular guide used the .243 for everything and short the 70 grain Hornady Bullet.

There was a study done herein S.C. about15 years ago where they tabulated the distance traveled after the shot for different calibers and also between cup and core Bullet’s and premiums. The .243 and 6mm did have a little longer animal travel but only by 3-4 yards. Interestingly, the .257 calibers had the least travel even compared to 30 caliber. The name of the plantation was called Cedar Knoll/ you can probably google it if you want.

I tried a 243 for one deer season, but only took four deer that year. The farthest one traveled was 40 yards and that was a poor liver shot. Two dropped at the shot and one made it about ten yards. All of those were taken with the 95NBT.

I have a good friend that hunts in the rolling hills here in S.C. and specifically hunts feed trees like White oaks so his shots are normally close ant the terrain more open than where I hunt. He has taken well over a hundred deer with his .243 and he loves the 100 grain Gameking. He said it normally does not exit at close range but the damage is wicked and they don’t go far.

Not a game warden, but for years I have used .243 A.I. to cull Elk cows and poor quality Bulls, depending on our survey number's about 6 to 10 Cows and 4 to 8 Bulls per year,contrary to the internet B.S. Elk are not hard to kill, hard to find yep, hard to see in the brush yep, hard to get a good shot at yep, hard to kill nope. Rio7

Why would game wardens be a valuable group to survey about cartridges for elk? Serious question. And don’t get me wrong one of my best friends is a Wyoming warden. Sure they see a lot of dead elk, but I don’t think they actually see very many shot. I doubt most of them see anymore elk shot than your average hunter. Maybe they do but I don’t think wardens in Wyoming kill many elk as official business outside of the odd injured animal and that has very little to do with hunting elk.

Did they in the past? Or am I just unaware of all these elk wardens are shooting?

Good question, Ralphie.

My interests, for why, are in the original post. The speculations.

I don't think they see more animals shot. I don't think anyone in this thread stated that.

Jason

Last fall I loaned my 6mm Rem to a ten year old hunter. I gave him a box of 50 rounds.....half of them were Hornady 100 gr BTSP and the other half were Nosler 55 grain BTs for prairie dogs. We had seven mule deer tags so decided to let the new hunter shoot a lot.....

I told him to shoot the "soft points" but he loved the pretty blue tips of the Ballistic tips and decided he'd shoot them.
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Long story short: We filled six of the seven tags and the youngster filled four of them.....taking shots to 350 yards. Every one of them DRT....The most impressive deer shooting I've seen in my life. One can only imagine my surprise when I discovered that not a single 100 grain bullet had been fired.

Here wardens shoot a LOT of elk personally doing damage control kills (or at least they did 20 years ago). I pulled up one year to our place north of town. The GW was cleaning his bloody hands in the stream that runs through our place. In the back of his pickup were 6 cow elk he had just culled.

270 Win and factory 130's of course...

I guess there are game wardens...and then there are game wardens. Two years ago I had one stop me on a forest service road and ask if my carbine was loaded. I started to open the bolt for him whereupon, he not trusting me, took the Mannlicher and proceeded in macho ATF fashion to check it himself. Apparently he had not handled enough bolt guns to realize the safety had to be off to open the bolt. Growing visibly agitated, and his hard on wilting rapidly, after waving the muzzle around as he struggled, he eventually handed it back and commanded I open it. I complied. Carbine and magazine empty, he then wanted to see every document in my wallet and glove box. He eventually let me go on with the stern admonition that he was keeping an eye on me.
My point of this long winded anecdote is that the people this job attracts are not the cream of law enforcement, let alone authorities on humane professional culling. I know an old couple who received a haystack elk carcass a few years ago near John Day, 3 holes, guts, brisket and earhole...I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that.

Montana isn't California... we generally have excellent wardens.

I’d actually say that wyoming wardens are some of the best LEOs around.