Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JB - Annealing with Candle, Too Much?

G'Day John,

Just a quick question. I had a mate who needed to anneal some 30 year old .17 Remington cases. I told him about the candle method and holding the case head with bare fingers and dropping them when they just get too hot to hold. Pretty simple I thought.

However, In his own wisdom he decided to hold the cases while wearing a thick pair of work gloves. He held the cases until they got too hot to hold through the gloves.

Has he softened the case heads too much by letting the cases get too hot?

Thanks.

Probably. One way to find out.

What Craigster said.

Yeah, I thought that might be the answer lol.

Thanks.

lol is exactly right

Thanks for reviving this topic..... Now that I'm in Chinese plague isolation mode there seems to be more reloading activity around here lately. Gonna give annealing a shot, ( without gloves), still have those instructions around here somewhere but haven't tried it yet. I'm even getting bored running around in the woods checking trail cams as a form of self isolation.

I use this
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100735354
Must be my engineering background but I like to be a bit more precise.

Once you use the Tempiqual a couple times you get a feel for it, especially if you observe the case color changes.

Which temperature Tempilaq due you use and where do you apply it?

Blacktailer,

The candle method was developed by using Tempilaq, by Fred Barker, who used to write a lot for Precision Shooting.

The one thing I've found is that it doesn't work with nickel plated brass. At least, not for me. Ended up pitching them and starting over with brass brass.

For years my annealing has been done with the use of a propane tank and holding the cases in my bare hands. I hold the cases with a count from 1-thousand up to 7-thousand and then drop it into a bowl of water for quenching. Crude but seems to have worked for quite a few years for me.

Jim

There will be no quenching. It will just cool the case. Brass can not be hardened like steel or iron (no carbon in it). It can be work hardened which is why you anneal it so it doesn't crack. I'm a former metallurgist for a transmission company. The templaq method gets you in the correct annealing temperature range so you don't over anneal it.

Every time this subject comes up, a bunch of guys say they use XYZ method--often the old-time annealing method recommended by just about every magazine/gun writer when I was a young rifle loony--standing the cases up in a pan full of water, with their shoulders and necks above the water. You then heated the exposed necks until they glowed red, and tipped 'em over into the water--which supposedly quenched 'em and finished the jobs.

As warbirdlover pointed out, annealing brass does not require quenching, because it would anneal fine if just left standing in the water. The real reason for the water was to prevent the case-heads from annealing too, because they need to stay hard. But heating brass until it glows any degree of red also tends to over-anneal it, making it softer than ideal.

The candle method was developed by Fred Barker with Tempiliq because he wanted a really simple method to use on small batches of brass, and also be just enough to anneal correctly. He experimented a lot, and found that holding any case from the .22 Hornet up in the middle with the tips of the fingers, then heating it in the flame of a candle until you couldn't hold it any longer annealed the brass fine--but did not over-anneal. He then dropped them on a wet towel, both to stop the annealing and wipe off the candle-smoke.

He sent me a copy of his article, and I also tested it with Templiaq. It works fine, but may not be as precise as some prefer. There are a bunch of other methods that are, including electronic annealing, as with the AMP machine.

I have tested a bunch of methods, and written about the basic metallurgy--except I need to try salt-bath annealing. The most recent publication on the metallurgy of annealing brass, and how various methods have worked, was a chapter in my book GUN GACK II, published in 2018. (I'm working on GG III right now, and in fact have handed my completed copy and photos over to the editor of the publishing company. It should appear in August or September.)

It would helpful in these discussions if more folks actually know how brass anneals, or why some methods don't work very well and others do. But apparently that is never going to happen, since every annealing thread that I've seen since joining the Campfire 19 years ago covers the same ground. But then most thread do.

I use the 750 Tempilaq and apply a dab inside the case neck. You don't want to apply on the outside because then you are reading flame temp. Usually just do the first 10 cases or so until you get the timing figured out.

A bunson or small alcahol burner like this one work very well. https://www.sciplus.com/wickless-de...KrejA6AIVma_ICh0VSwN6EAQYCCABEgJFIvD_BwE

I have not tried one with Templac but I think these are hotter and faster than a candle and with less soot. But there are those that have to have their vanilla candles, they probably shoot 270s too.

I too drop mine into a pot of water. Not for any metal treatment, just to keep from dinging up case necks with out bothering to sit them down gently.

I’ve used candles, kerosene candles and a propane torch, standing in water and twirling on a finish nail held with pliers. My preferred method these days is the torch with low flame as it works better for me than the others, particularly with larger caliber/cases. I drop them in water only because I don’t care to handle them when the case head starts getting hot. Only time I screwed up was the first time; .22 HP brass standing in water...got them too hot and it took a couple of fire/load cycles before they started behaving.

I have brass for a variety of cartridges that have been fired 15-30 times and are still in good shape.

Dan,

Even the AMP (Annealing Made Perfect) electric annealing machine, can overdo it. When I tested one, they had a list of cartridges/manufacturers with the digital settings. I had some .30-06 cases from a manufacturer they listed, and it over-annealed those, which required a couple firings before they returned to normal. The problem is 2-fold, because even brass from specific manufacturers varies from lot-to-lot; and quite a few major manufacturers make brass for each other. This may seem odd, but it happens far more often than many handloaders suspect.

It was no big deal, but even with the AMP (which retails for over $1000) there can be some tweaking involved in specific brass.

John, I had no idea they collaborated in that fashion.

On the matter of annealing machinery, the longer I play with this the more I appreciate how functional the old ways are, and I have a KISS mentality anyway.