Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer post on bedding

There was a recent post by Mule Deer explaining why an action that the recoil lug screws into should be bedded with a barrel pad in front of the action. I thought I knew where it was but cannot locate it again, I would likle to re-read it before doing a bed job.

Can anyone direct me to it??

drover

Google search it. I believe I remember reading him post that as well and I will agree. I've had good luck doing it that way with ruger m77's and my old m1917's. It seems to help in regards to getting more consistent accuracy from those action types. Just make sure you neutral bed it stress free. The pad under the chamber area helps to keep everything free from stress when you torque your action screws down. As long as you properly glass bed you action. With my model 70's, and Savages, I just bed the recoil lug and tang and float the whole barrel.... Good luck with your search...

Hi drover,

Here it is again:

One of the small differences in the Vanguard (Howa) actions that I've noted before can occasionally cause problems if people aren't aware of it.

The Howa/Vanguard action is one of the relatively few designed since World War II that have the front action screw going directly into the recoil lug, instead of behind it. The screw going into the lug was common on pre-WWII actions, especially the influential 98 Mauser, which is probably why so many earlier bolt-actions featured it, including the 1903 Springfield, Arisaka, etc. But the front screw in the lug can result in a bedding problem, which also resulted in one common misconception about bedding bolt rifles, back when epoxy bedding became common.

If the front action screw is REALLY tightened on such actions, it can actually bend the front of the action downward slightly, since the stock support is behind the recoil lug. Since the locking lugs on 2-lug bolt orient vertically when the bolt's closed, this can result in slightly uneven lug contact--and accuracy problems. This is probably why Weatherby advises 35 inch-pounds to tighten the action screws, which isn't all that much considering that 50-80 are often suggested for the front screw on actions with the screw behind the lug.

This is the real reason many people started epoxy-bedding not only the action itself but the rear of the barrel, back when zillions of "war surplus" 98s and 1903s were sold after the war. Bedding the rear of the barrel allowed the front action screw to be tightened hard WITHOUT bending the action--a particular problem with 98s, due to the thumb-slot in the left sidewall.

A lot of people, even today, think that bedding the rear of the barrel helps "support" it, the reason they do it even on actions with the front screw behind the recoil lug--when these do NOT bend the action when tightened hard. The Model 70 was probably the first major commercial action with the screw behind the lug, but Remington used the same placement about a decade later when they introduced the 721/722 bolt-actions, which eventually morphed into the 700.

The front action-screw placement is probably a large part of the reason both the 70 and 700 both acquired such good reputations for accuracy: The barrel on does NOT need any extra bedding support on either action, the reason they both usually shoot very well even with long, heavy free-floated barrels.

Instead, bedding the rear of the barrel on actions like the 98, 1903 and Howa Vanguard supports the ACTION, to keep it from bending slightly when the screws are tightened hard.

John, excellent post with a very clear explanation. Thanks.

Thanks--and you're welcome!

I've bedded two SA 1500 rifles in laminated stocks. I installed 1/2" OD pillars under both the front and rear guard screws. On the front I tape of the bottom of the recoil lug for full contact with the pillar. Both shot very well and the rifle in 6 CM is the most accurate factory rifle I've owned.
Neither was bedded forward of the receiver and the barrels are floated about 20 thou. full length

That definitely works with stiffer stocks. The problems I've encountered are with the more flexible injection-molded stocks on Vanguards--which is where bedding the rear of the barrel tends to help.

One of the most accurate factory big game rifles I've ever owned was a Weatherby Vanguard Sporter with a walnut stock--which had semi-fancy wood which was very hard, especially for Claro. All I did to it was epoxy-bed the front of the action, and with 100-grain Barnes TSXs it would regularly put three into around 1.5 inches--at 300 yards.

Thanks very much, as mentioned above that is an excellent explanation of how and why to do it.

I appreciate it.

drover

So Ruger 77 MKII and Hawkeye--bed a barrel pad or complete free float?

In my experience, free-float.

I've gotten pretty good results on my M77s with the barrel shank neutral bedded. Might be just a difference in individual rifles.

Well, yeah--because in this instance a "neutral bedded" barrel shank doesn't make any difference.

Or at least that's my experience. If you've tested it and found neutral bedding the barrel shank on a 77 makes a difference vs. free-floating, would be very interested in hearing your results.

two of the three rifles shot better after adding the pad under the shank than when just bedding the action and bottom of the lug. My thinking was the angled screw might be sucking the front of the action under when the screw was tightened fairly tight, not farmer tight even though I spent much of my time on the farm. I don't know that to be the case, but both shot better with the shank bedded so I stayed with it.

Thanks for the info. How much better did they shoot with the shank bedded? And how much shooting did you do to determine that?

I've had a pre-'64 M70 Fwt. .30-06 for some time. Rifle is all original, no bedding modifications, etc. I can get 3-shot, 100 yards groups of an inch, sometimes a little less, as long as the barrel isn't hot. Recently, using the most accurate load I've found for this rifle, I fired a couple of groups that were around 5". I immediately figured the scope had gone bad and switched it. Group size with the different scope was identical. I cut a 1/4" strip about 1 1/2" long from a laminated card and forced it with some difficulty between the end of the forearm and the underside of the barrel - a very tight fit. The rifle immediately shot better than it ever has in the past, but I don't know how permanent my fix is.

I’ve never heard the term “neutral” bedding. I always thought an action was either bedded, or not bedded, no other option was possible. Same for the barrel. What does “neutral” bedding mean?

No pressure on the action or barrel, just contact.

Oaky. In contrast to a pressure pad near the fore-end, which is intended to apply pressure, and thus, is not "neutral". Thx.

Another issue that probably doesn't get mentioned enough is pressure from the box mag. I always want to be able to slightly move the sheet metal box after I'm done bedding to assure no binding. Like most anything, it's attention to detail that makes or breaks a project. This applies to guns with the sheet metal box mags.

DF

The thing is, with the Howa or the Sako action, the front screw not only goes into the lug but there is no portion of the receiver ahead of the lug. On any receiver which has at least some bedding surface ahead of the lug, one can float the barrel all the way back and clear the bottom of the lug with some success. Actions like this would be the Ruger 77, the Mauser 98, the p14 Enfield. Those which do not have any bedding surface ahead of the lug must either be bedded on the bottom of the lug or at the rear of the barrel.
My preference has always been to float the barrel entirely whenever possible but I will bed the barrel shank when there is no other option.
Howa, Sako, Winchester 54, are all receivers which can be bedded on the bottom of the lug and work out ok but generally work a little better with the barrel shank bedded for an inch or so and the lug cleared on the bottom. GD