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Which Solder ? #14725843 03/30/20
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bcraig Offline OP
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I am going to limit the sear engagement on a Pietta 1858 Remington New Army to get rid of the trigger creep .

I have never soldered and will be soldering a small ,thin piece of Mild steel below the full cock notch on the Hammer.

Which solder do I need to use to do this?

I already have some Bernzomatic Metal Work Solder
Silver Bearing Acid Core Solder,Lead Free with a 430 Degree F melt temperature., .062
Will this be ok to use ?

Like I said I have never done any soldering

I do have a Bernzomatic Basic torch that I bought at Walmart several years ago
I also have a Wood burning pen that also has a soldering tip provided with it,It burns at about a thousand degrees F
Should I use the Torch or the woodburning pen ?

I would also appreciate advice on soldering for this project ,

Thanks


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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726011 03/30/20
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I'm not a Gunsmith, but have done a bunch of soldering. I doubt any lead based solder will work well. I would suggest a silver solder. A propane torch will not cut it, you will need a MAP gas or acetylene torch. Others may know better.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726029 03/30/20
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Use the low temp solder.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726054 03/30/20
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It would depend on the pressure on the piece soldered. Lead is meant for electronics and piping. No real pressure on the soldered joint. Try the low temp and see if it works.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726637 03/30/20
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Hmmm. Question: Why would you apply heat to a hardened surface like a full-cock notch of a hammer? Answer: Only if you want to anneal said surface and then watch it rapidly wear out or break.


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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726697 03/30/20
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Yep, if it is a hardened surface then you could and most likely will create a problem with too much heat. Propane or electric heat not much of a chance. The solder for low temps does not have much strength however.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14726908 03/30/20
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Try some Loctite Black Max. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14727025 03/30/20
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bcraig Offline OP
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As I said I have never done this before, I do not know what would be considered to be too high a temperature for the hammer ?
I do not believe that there will be any load bearing .
The shim will not be sitting directly in the full cock notch but will be placed below the notch not quite and 1/8 of an inch so it will not come in contact with the end of the trigger sear but come in contact with the trigger sear Body a little lower as well.

Does anyone know what is the max heat that a case hardened hammer can take before it becomes annealed ?
I am not sure it is even hardened at all,guess I will take a file to it in a smalll obscure place to see if has any tendencies to dig in any at all of just skate across the surface .

I am going to wait to find a definitive answer before starting as I do not want to do this on a trial and error basis !

Last edited by bcraig; 03/30/20.

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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14727475 03/31/20
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You can Google up the tensile strength of the solder in question and get tensile strength and melt and flow temperatures. I went to Brownell's High Force 44 AND THE FLUX THEY RECOMMEND long ago, strong enough for about everything that doesn't need braze or weld. And the low flow temp makes it easy to control the heat. And heat control is the secret. Yes, you can overheat the joint. Speaking of heat, it is perfectly fine to soft solder common hardened steel, the flow temperature is far below the temper and anneal temperatures. But it isn't hard to get small parts way too hot with an open flame. And propane is plenty hot for soft solder (not the braze type silver solder which needs 1200F or so to flow.

And practice on scrap first. Until you can solder scrap acceptably, guaranteed you'll mess up a good part.

There's nothing secret about the Brownell's solder. It's tin with 4% silver but Brownell's is a favorite supplier particularly for small orders. But do match the flux activity and temperature to the solder.




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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: Craigster] #14727483 03/31/20
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Originally Posted by Craigster
Try some Loctite Black Max. You might be pleasantly surprised.



I agree with Craigster.

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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14727534 03/31/20
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Might work, I like the stuff. But make sure the steel is chemically clean. Partial to solder/weld myself, metal is more stable in its properties than cyanoacrylate and its filler. (Black Max has an atomized rubber filler which GREATLY improves shock resistance. Plain cyanoacrylate is fairly brittle.)


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14727710 03/31/20
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I’d either stone the sear to change the angle and make for less engagement or stone the notch down for less engagement. Worst case I’d see if I could drill the hammer and install a pin that could be dressed down to accomplish the same end as you’re wanting with the block you want to solder on.

Of course any of those operations are not for the average garage tinkerer who doesn’t have a complete understanding of the internals being modified.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14727919 03/31/20
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And if you try this, pick the cheapest, most easily replaced part to work on if you have a choice. smile

Not really being a smartass. Easy to ruin a fire control part if you're learning how to adjust by reshaping.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14757643 04/07/20
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bcraig Offline OP
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I[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]used the picture hanger for the Mild steel and bent it backwards to match the contour of the hammer and then took a Here is a picture of the picture hanger that I contoured to the shape of the hammer
l cut off a piece a little over an 1/4 long Piece and used JB Weld to put the piece about an 1/8 inch piece below the full cock notch.
Then use a file and a Dremel to thin the piece a little at a time (making sure not to touch the full cock notch )to make sure That I had enough contact to prevent push off .
After fiddling around with it I ended up with a Hammer with no push off and no perceptible creep.
2.5 pounds on my cheapo trigger scale.
I am going to practice soldering on pieces of scrap and if this shim ever falls off I will then solder the piece back on.[Linked Image from i.imgur.com][Linked Image from i.imgur.com]




Last edited by bcraig; 04/07/20.

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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14757778 04/07/20
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bcraig Offline OP
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I just added a couple of pics of the finished Modification that I did


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Re: Which Solder ? [Re: smithrjd] #14764041 04/09/20
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Originally Posted by smithrjd
Yep, if it is a hardened surface then you could and most likely will create a problem with too much heat. Propane or electric heat not much of a chance. The solder for low temps does not have much strength however.


That is some really bad advice for someone new to soldering, and who is working on a heat treated part. Propane torches absolutely can and do put out enough heat to damage steel temper, and a lot more than that.

Bcraig, it would be wise to avoid soldering on either the hammer or sear, even if your JB weld part doesn't work. To your question of how much heat is too much - on bare steel, as soon as you start seeing it change colors (yellow -> brown -> blue) you're in the range where it can affect temper. Normal tempering temps are between the pale yellow and solid blue color stages, depending on the steel and how hard the manufacturer wanted it to be. With harder surfaces like you're working with, the temper was probably done at lower temps, in the yellow->brown range. You will exceed that if you try to solder to it.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14764351 04/09/20
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If the steel starts changing colors (temper colors) it's way hotter than you want for soft soldering.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14764381 04/09/20
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That would be my take, low temp solder should not take enough heat to really change tempering. Silver soldering would. Soft solder is not really that strong was my point to begin with.

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14765135 04/09/20
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Is this the way a gunsmith would do this?

Re: Which Solder ? [Re: bcraig] #14765515 04/09/20
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Actually a good question. I'm not a 'smith but I prefer as few pieces as necessary so I'd think about reshaping parts for a proper engagement. But have tricked out Mauser triggers as described by Dunlap. So long as it's safe and reliable and can't disassemble itself to cause an unsafe condition.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
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