Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Change in EDC Philosophy?

I always accepted the ideas that the fast majority of defensive shootings would be up close and wouldn’t require a lot of firepower. It was also common to hear that small guns are easier to carry, therefore you’d carry more often. So, I carried a J-Frame or a Glock 36.

A few incidents have made me change my beliefs. I’m in my 15th year as an LEO and have seen more than a few shootings. Common themes were: Shot placement over caliber, and don’t stop shooting til the bad guy stops. My agency does a lot of failure-to-stop training at the range and with sims.

This has been emphasized even more after a deputy was killed in a gunfight with a guy who was wearing body armor. The bad guy took 4 hits to CoM that would have been fatal had he not been wearing armor. In that instance, the first head shot won. With the proliferation of affordable surplus body armor, this type of thing is a new reality.

Another good example is the church goer who took out that guy with a head shot from a decent distance. He saved lives that day. Active shooter training I’ve participated in emphasizes the benefit of being able to engage quickly and at farther distances.

Due to stuff like this, I’m carrying larger guns with higher capacity that are more accurate. I’ve found that if shooting with irons, I am most accurate with a hammer-fired pistol such as a Sig P226 or 1911 when distances exceed 20 yards. I can’t seem to get that kind of consistency out of a striker fired gun unless I use a red dot. I’m really seeing the benefit of red dot sights on pistols. Especially if it allows me to carry a lighter gun.

Have any of you transitioned to bigger guns for similar reasons? I can see how most concealed carriers wouldn’t be concerned with engaging someone at a longer distance because their responsibility is to get out and live for the sake of their families.

What do you guys think?

I've always carried a proper fighting sized EDC and spare magazines for all the reasons you mentions.

My biggest change has been in how I practice. Got a timer, and some steel, and IDPA style targets, and focus more on the variety of shooting you are describing.

One drill I've added is the "Jack Wilson":

3 second par time,15 yard head shot from concealment.

The Glock 26 carries like a small gun but shoots like a big one, with a respectable payload on board. With a quick 17 round reload on your belt, it's pretty formidable.

I sold my Shield and my G43 and decided to carry an M&P 2.0C or a G19 complete with an extra mag for the same basic reasons you state. The Jerod Reston story is reason enough on its own.

I also added a light to my EDC equipment and a bleeder kit to my truck, range bag and had a Stop the Bleed class scheduled and cancelled due to this mess we’re in now.

I too have my own timer, plates and USPSA targets, almost all practice is drawn from concealment and most matches are just practice for what if.

I do still have my J frames but only carry one when I’m wearing my running shorts.

I haven't transitioned to that philosophy as that's been my philosophy since day one.............the first handgun I carried regularly was a Colt Combat Commander.

Current EDC is a Sig 229 SAO/, preceded by various 1911's, Smith M&P, Glock 19 & Beretta 92 Compact (which really isn't compact).................I will occasionally carry a G27 in a coat pocket for short trips here & there. Once in a great while & under certain circumstances, a J-frame, but not often.

I've always put shoot-ability & accuracy above any small inconvenience of carrying a larger gun.

MM

Additional training with one hand shooting drills, support side shooting (as if strong side incapacitated), support side reloading, support side clearing malfunctions, dropped weapon drills, CQC drills.

Holy Cow!

https://www.policeone.com/jared-reston/videos/will-to-win-jared-reston-lYh118qD4sXNwxgd/

There's a better video out there where he's talking to a group of LE and goes into more detail that really drove the point home for me.

While that idea is often promoted in certain circles, it seems to me more of a "beginners idea", and the professionals promoting that idea seem to be targeting the people who are only willing to do the bare minimum to carry a gun as a talisman. While it may be true that the average gunfight is at 7 yards or less and only uses 3 rounds (or whatever the current numbers are), preparing for that benchmark means you've already decided to lose half of the potential situations you could be in.

Good on you for recognizing the difference. I'm of the mindset that if you're committed to carrying in case you really need to use it, it's worth carrying something you can really fight with as well as hit at extended ranges. For me those choices were primarily 1911 and then Glock pistols in .45, and then switching to a 9mm Glock during the Obummer era (not that he had anything to do with the choice). I do own some smaller stuff like the G43 as well, but that's for the rare exception, like being stuck in a tux for my buddy's wedding, rather than the general rule for daily carry.

Of course part of that mindset involves putting more effort into shooting and fighting skills. I have no idea about you personally but most of the "regular guy" shooters I know, including some LEO guys, struggle to hit a basketball sized target at 10 yards from a stationary position. With that kind of skill level, they better hope they don't need that pistol for anything more than the often quoted "average gunfight". Shooting at distance, shooting on the move (and not a slow walk, think more like sprinting), shooting weak hand only, etc are some of the things worth building skill in; the firearm choice is only a small part of that and not much more than the first step. Hand to hand skills and the ability to draw and use the pistol (or a knife) from a ground fight is another side of that mindset too that shouldn't be left out; this is where a lot of guys figure out their carry method doesn't work so well, and/or their skills are lacking to access and use the gun before either the bad guy(s) does and ends it, or they get winded from being out of shape.

More than you asked for, but that stuff is just brushing the surface of what you posted about.

Great responses guys! I think one thing that makes carrying larger guns more feasible is some of the holster designs that are available these days. As a part of my job, I often have to fly while armed. A local holster company makes great IWB holsters. With his stuff, I can hide a full size gun, extra magazine, and handcuffs under a polo shirt and no one ever notices.

I definitely need to do more shooting while moving with a sense of purpose. At work, we never go faster than L&I avoidance speed. A couple detectives got me into shooting IDPA and it helps a little, but sometimes the game of IDPA overshadows tactics. Since I’m not gonna win, I often will shoot a match in a more tactically sound fashion and not worry about a few proceedurals.

I actually started big, with a Glock 17. I always appreciated having a 'reload' already in the gun.

A couple years back I decided a smaller pistol would be kind of nice, and I picked up a Kahr CW9. Nice piece, but 7+1 doesn't give me the warm fuzzy, and I'm faster on target with a little bigger pistol. So I went back to the trusty old Gen2 Glock 17.

Enter the Glock 19 Gen5 a couple months ago. My new EDC. Big enough to shoot well and carry a good amount of ammo. Small enough to conceal easily.

I really like my Gen 5 Glock 19, too, and will likely end up carrying it. Hate to replace my Gen 5 Glock 26, though, as that gun is so just right.

Good Answer.

I practice out to 20 and 50 yards now, with Lehjgh Penetrators and Defenders in 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, 10mm and 45 ACP, the world is getting stranger by the day, that said, an AR or REPR is always close, and many times not out of arms reach, 62gr TSX and 64gr Nosler bonded, plus 30 cal 150gr Partitions and 176 Lehighs will get the job then.

I'm among those that traded the comfort of a tiny gun for the increased ammo capacity and shootability of a bigger gun.

I used to EDC a Kahr PM9 (7+1) with a spare 6-rd mag in my pocket. I shot it well enough, but I always knew in my heart that I shot bigger guns better, plus they carry more ammo. I finally manned up and switched to a G19 for EDC during the week. I also carry a MagPul 21-rd spare mag on my belt. I figure that will be enough to keep evil at bay until help arrives.

On weekends or other "cheat days," I will still grab the Kahr if I believe I am going to be at a "low-risk" location such as picking up a buddy to go to coffee early at Denny's then shooting at the range. I still carry the G19 to church, and based on recent events, have no plans to change that decision.

I usually carry a Glock 43 with a seven round mag and two seven round spares.

I'm going back to my Glock 19 and two G17 mags as spares.

I figure if that doesn't get me back to the carbine in the truck, God and Darwin are both scheming my demise.....

Went from lcp to G43 or EC9S and spare mag.

Not exactly a sea change in philosophy, but a small directional improvement......................very personal topic, so to each his own.

MM

No change here. For reasons stated by TRH, I liked the Glock 26 until the Sig P365 replaced it. They both shoot well at distance, with the edge to the lighter, almost single action trigger of the Sig. I can't say that I would go someplace with a Glock 19 that I wouldn't go with the Sig.

I've carried a G19 for years now as my primary. I had recently switched to a Sig P320 X-compact with a red dot. However, after picking up a P365 from a friend, I've started carrying it a lot in a Vedder light tuck. Put on a green CT laser, Talon grips and Grayguns straight trigger. !2rd mag on board and a 15rd in my pocket.

Smaller, easier to carry in warm weather (especially at work) with just a shirt untucked over it, but still very good capacity.






Edited to say that my my EDC philosophy really hasn't changed. Which is:
1) have a gun
2) have a gun that I can shoot well (i.e.: head shots at 15 yds minimum) For me, with this size gun, this is where the green CT comes in and shines (no pun intended).
3) have as much capacity as possible
4) have a backup gun nearby if possible (do 95% of time)
5) practice with that specific gun every week (every Monday for me)

The only "small" gun I ever EDCed was a J-frame, and that's no longer within the bounds of what I'll carry. But I won't typically carry any "medium" or "big" revolvers either, for capacity/reloading reasons. All my semiautos are 9mm these days, and I don't go below 3.5" (never have IIRC) on the barrel or a 12 round magazine (had a few single stacks in the past), and it's been a while since I've gone below 4" on the barrel. So all in all I wouldn't say I've changed philosophy, just refined it.

I'm still rolling with either the P365, G19, or G23. I'm comfortable with any of them and like them....mainly the 365 now. I'm not traveling to cities currently but when I was, and if I had to now, I'd have whichever of those previous models on my right hip and an LCR in left front pocket.

Shield 9mm is all I can cuff. Keep a spare mag, and a second shield in the truck. I have a MP 2.0 compact 15+1 but it is a good bit heavier, so the shield gets the most belt time. Fire fights with the local Amish have slowed down, so Shield should be enough. City travels would have the MP2.0, but probably not a extra mag.

May seem like a dumb question and it certainly does not pertain directly to the subject of the thread, but is your preference for hammer-fired pistols due to their being shot single-action, and hence are more accurate due to better triggers? Or is there something inherent in hammer-fired weapons that makes them more conducive to accurate shooting for you? Reason I'm asking, I'm considering a Security 9 which is hammer fired, but not single action.

Started carrying a S&W 3913 9mm single stack pistol in 1995, transitioned to a Sig P225 single stack 9mm and later to a Kahr K40 single stack 40mm pistol sometime around the mid 2000's. Also have carried a S&W 642 J-frame in my front pants pocket or jacket pocket for years. I became enamored over having a small pistol and had LW Seecamp build me a .32 auto and shortly after that arrived Ruger came out with the LCP .380 so of course I had to have that. I have not carried the .32 or .380 in years.

Last year I decided I needed to have a higher capacity pistol available for times when I may be somewhere that multiple assailants may be a threat. Not sure where that might be but being prepared was something I felt I needed to do. I purchased a CZ 75D PCR 9mm that has 15 round capacity. The reason for the CZ was it was the only high capacity 9mm that seemed to fit my hand well. I now carry it whenever I can conceal that much gun.

I also have a 1911 45 auto, .357 and .44 mag revolvers but they are seldom taken out of the house.

So, I guess I have also evolved from thinking 5 to 7 rounds would be more than enough to solve any problem I may encounter to thinking I need more rounds in a large more shootable firearm.

Who knows what is next.

Almost wandered off the Glock reservation a while back and really considered getting the Ruger Baby 9. Just so much easier. Then the carjacking crap, and the black gangs talking about busting up on white folk, then the antifa........Changed my direction. It's not slick as a Kimber but I've carried and shot my pre-Gen model 23 since the early 1990s. As others have said you have an extra mag onboard. For everyday I generally don't carry an extra mag but have one or two 15 rounders in my console. So my concept of an EDC hasn't changed. It has however changed items. Now for some times, doing church security for example when we actually had church, I went to a G17 and an extra mag. So my daily is now either a G23 or G17 with between 0 and 2 extra mags. As someone else mentioned I really shoot single action hammer guns better than striker fired. So now after I get a couple of hundred rounds out of it, I may go to an old school but immaculate alloy frame 5903 S&W I bought over a year ago and just had too much else going on to get accustomed enough to it to carry. Adjustable rear sight with ears and all. Cool 9mm.

So anyway my EDC concept has been expanded but to all similar sized guns. I'd much rather do that and work around the concealment issue than go to a smaller pistol with less capacity. As I mulled over this one day it occurred to me no one I'm aware of who actually had to participate in a shoot out has said anything to the effect, "Wow, wish I'd brought a smaller gun".

I had been considering moving to a full-sized pistol for EDC, but then I got a Sig 365. I may not be able to shoot it quite as well as I can some bigger pistols, gut I can shoot it well enough. It will only get better as I have more time to work with it. I frequently carry in situations where I have to keep it really concealed. I have been amazed at how well I can conceal this IWB in warm weather clothing. I was also amazed the first time I took it to the range. I really exceeded my expectations by a significant margin.

That 365, in particular the 365 XL, was the philosophical game changer for me. I'd like to carry a compact sized pistol but have yet to get comfortable with them. The Sig is not a little gun but it's definitely smaller and more concealable than the Compacts - the 15 round pistols with 4" barrels exemplified by the Glock 19, M&P Compact, Sig X-Carry, etc.

It's definitely the smallest pistol I've owned that's still completely shootable. It's not as comfortable to shoot as the compacts but hits on target are what matter and that 365 in either configuration lets me hit as well as a larger piece. Here are two pics originally posted a few weeks ago showing semi-rapid fire from a standard 365 with 3" barrel and a Glock 19, both at 7 yards. I threw a few more shots with the Sig than the larger Glock but both of those groups are around 2 1/2 to 3", every round in both groups would have been good COM hits.

It would be interesting to see that comparison at 15 & 25 yards.

The 365 XL is a decent sized gun with a longer barrel than the standard 365 & a corresponding increase in sight radius.

It would also be interesting to see the same comparison between the 2 different sized 365's.

MM

No change for the main carry gun here...have been carrying a Colt Commander in .38 Super daily since 1980 and a standard GM .45 before that for 4 years. If I wanted to carry a "modern" gun it would be a G19. About the same size and weight but with a few more rounds... The last ten years I did LE work and the five years after when I did PI work, I carried a S&W 6906...again about the same size and weight as the other two...

Just have always believed in carrying a gun that would take care of 99% of the situations which I saw while in LE and read about in books and magazines.

One thing that changed about 10 years ago was starting to carry a backup gun. While I always carried one while in LE (when authorized) never carried one off-duty. After testing everything from NAA Mini-Revolvers to snubbies settled on a Kahr P380. Fits my hand well, great trigger pull, excellent sights, locked breech design and sits flat in a pocket... And when that is even too big a KelTec P32 can be hidden almsot anywhere...

I prefer to learn from the mistakes and successes of others...

Bob

The 365 XL is intriguing. It is the only gun that has me considering up-sizing from the 365. Loaded with 12, mine weighs 25.7 ounces. According to Glock's website, the Glock 26 Gen 5 weighs 26.07 ounces loaded. The Glock has a shorter barrel, less capacity, and a shorter grip, and is thicker. The XL is optic ready. I have held out on buying a good IWB holster for the XL until a good micro RDS is available. (The Holosun 507K looks promising, but delivery times are affected by the pandemic and I would rather buy American.) I suspect that I will change when I get a reliable micro RDS on the XL.



That comparison is on my to-do list. I have to use an indoor range during the winter, which limits me to 50 feet. (It is closed now due to the pandemic.) To me, the accuracy seems close enough to not make a difference at 50 feet. (I think that some of it may be the result of Sig using different triggers on the two models, which can be confusing when switching from one to the other.) The biggest difference that I find is the recovery time between shots, which is longer with the smaller gun.

Active shooters have definitely changed the landscape for non-LE concealed carriers, especially if you ever enter a big-box store or church with family members. I grew up shooting at fairly long ranges, and I train routinely at 50 and 100 yards with my carry gun.

I’ve tried lots of guns over the last 40-odd years, starting with DA revolvers. From a pure accuracy standpoint, I value a crisp trigger and good sights matter more than anything else. But I also want to balance slow-fire accuracy with concealment, speed from the holster, ease of getting good hits quickly on multiple targets out to about 15 yards, and ease of reloading quickly with a large-capacity magazine.

I don’t shoot J-frames well at speed unless I add grips that make them almost as big as a K-frame. You can also time reloads with a sundial, so they’re out. I do shoot the G26 and G43 well, but their short grips mean that the magazine hangs up on my firing hand about half the time so I plan to strip the mag from the gun on every reload, which again slows things down. That forces a change in tactics that I don’t much like, so they’re out, too.

I’m pretty much settled on a Glock 19 for everything. It’s not hard to conceal, plus I can shoot it and manipulate it as well as I can larger pistols. Beyond that, I've gotten good training and I pay a lot of attention to being able to articulate very clearly why I chose to fire a shot much beyond handshaking distance.


Okie John

Nice, will the little P380 handle those Lehigh drill bits?

Don't have exactly that comparison but hopefully this is close enough. I haven't really shot the P365 out to 25 yards, I may have done so once or twice but don't have those targets. I do take the Compact pistols out to 25 but again don't have a full range of comparison targets. Will show what I have and discuss afterwards.

1. P365XL using Speer 124 GDHP, standing aimed fire at 15 yards. The holes in the middle were at 7 yards, the 5 at 12 and 2:00 in the 9 ring were fired at 15 yards.




2. P365 "XX" - XL slide on a 365 grip frame, this is what I carry now. 10 shots standing aimed fire at 15 yards, S&B 124 FMJ.




3. Glock 19, 10 rounds standing aimed fire at 15 yards. I think these would be S&B 115 FMJ but I forgot to write that down.




4. Not a G19 but a same size pistol. Sig P320 X-Compact, or rather another of my hybrids with an X-Compact grip and a 3.9" Carry slide/barrel assembly since the standard X-Compact barrel is only 3.6", shorter even than the 365 XL. Two groups with Speer 124 GDHP and S&B 124 FMJ over sandbags at 25 yards. This was to check sight settings, I have since moved the sights to get the groups to center.

Using a G34, P320 full size or M&P 2.0 full size 5" I can generally get 3-4" groups standing aimed fire at 25 yards.




Looking at 1, 2 and 3, at 15 yards the 365XL and Glock 19 are about the same for me. Looks like a few more flyers with the 365 but the overall group sizes are very similar. Also, except for that one flyer with the Speer 124 GDHP you can see it groups much better than the S&B. It sure cuts prettier holes.

On #4, at 25 yards that whole group is about 3" although most of the holes are in 1 1/2". But let's be honest and include the flyers so it's a 3" group. I mostly shoot the compacts and full size pistols at 25 yards just to verify their zero at that range.

I have read either here or somewhere that in a shooting you are, at best, only half as good as you are on your worst day at the range. Given that, I'd certainly take a COM shot with the 365 or Glock out to 25 yards. I might try a head shot at 15 yard with any of them, 365, Glock or anything else if circumstances warrant it but unless I was calm as ice and had time to aim I wouldn't absolutely count on a first round hit.

As is said, you get the fight you get, not the one you want. These targets highlight the desirability of always going for a COM shot no matter what the range, and only trying to hit a small moving target like a head if that's the only shot you have.

They also show the desirability of knowing exactly where your pistol hits at various yardages. Looking at the 365 groups in #1, POI coincides with POA at 7 yards but is 2" high at 15, it gets about 4-5" high at 25. POA in this case is to set the top of the front sight dead in the middle of the X. . The G19 with the same sight picture shoots under the dot on the front sight or pretty much right at the top of the sight. I've been using the top of the front sight as my sight picture for some 55 years now so that's where I'll keep my sight picture.

Shooting our CC matches exposed a lot of faults in both carry pistols and carry methods.

While I still carry a J frame once in awhile, I'd rather throw it at someone than try to do a reload under fire.

Increase distance and the smaller pistols don't work as well as a full size pistol, it's just a fact.

Select what you shoot the best while still being able to conceal it and get out and train. Draws and reloads are just as important as shooting yet most neglect practice.

That's what is loaded in it...

Guys, don't get too wrapped up in slow fire accuracy for a carry gun. Yes, you need to be able to hit at distance, but if you need it, chances are you're going to have to do it fast; none of this slow "align the sights, focus on the front sight with a big white target, gently squeeze the trigger" kind of stuff; that's not likely to happen in any fight other than in the movies. The ability to make those same hits quickly and repeatedly is what matters, and that's where the little guns like the 365 and G43 (I still consider them in the same category for this point, regardless of capacity) fall behind.

There are guys who can't hit anything at 10 yards because they don't practice, and other guys who practice all the time and focus on slow fire at 10-15-25 yards or more. Neither are the right mindset for training yourself with a carry gun.

I am going to stick with the G31/17 platforms and perhaps the G27 on occasion. KISS.

Great! that's even better.

There's a lot of truth in this.

And in the real world you might have to mix and match, such as firing a fast string at 5 yards, followed up with a head shot at 15 or 20 yards. How many practice that kind of a transition?

That's where the gun games help, as you know.

Some, but the rules build in some bad habits too. Be careful how much you rely on gun games to teach/train gunfighting skills. Fight-focused training/practice/whatever you want to call it is very different than competition. But yes, there are some shooting skills that competition is good for developing, like you said.

My main point here is that carrying a pistol is about being prepared for a fight; it's not about scores or rules or planning how to shoot a stage. Shooting is only a small part of that fight-ready mindset; too many guys get overly focused on shooting and neglect the rest of it.

We more often than not throw in a 50 yard plate. Our range requires us to shoot no closer than 13 yards unless we walk out there. We usually stagger targets from 13 to 20 yards with the 50 just in case you get bored.

Unless one is doing work that puts them in extra danger smaller gun makes more sense. Smaller gun especially hammer-fired DAO offers more concealment options and can be deployed more quickly.

Iron Truth.

I have to disagree with your assertion that a small gun deployed more quickly. For me, it's much easier, and hence quicker, to get a proper grip on a full sized frame. As for carry options, I live in Colorado, so most of our weather provides plenty of leeway to dress around a 15 round 9mm frame. For what I need, I find such guns provide a good balance between concealment and capabilities.

Where you live, or for your hand size, that might not be the case, but for me, it's what generally works best.

I agree, gun games have some benefit, but many things required in gun games will get you killed in a real fight. I especially dislike what using cover/and concealment looks like in IDPA. But, since I’m not gonna win anyway, I shoot the scenarios more tactically sound and just eat the penalties.

Always been that way. I have big hands. They don't lend well to manipulation of tiny guns in stressful situations. I still most often find myself carrying a Sign 226 in 357 with one spare

My feelings exactly... Back in the 1970s to the mid-1980s when the GamesMen took over, IPSC was what IDPA came to be but with FAR less rules. Made no difference if if you shot revolver or semi-auto, 9mm or .45...just make the PowerFactor and you were golden... Then the GamesMen came in with the comps, magwells one could drive a semi into and suddenly all the tactics were gone...

When IDPA was announced I was really happy as I had dropped out of IPSC years before... I called and got the rule book and half way through the book threw it in the trash...just another game. I have shot some IDPA at a club near me but like Gooch, shoot it on my terms not theirs...go ahead a give me penalties...all you want...and I still don't come in last...

Bob

Every time you type something you sound dumber

That's pure nonsense.....................

MM

Apparently a summation of Wyatt Earp's philosophy about gunfights was "Fast is fine..but accuracy is final". And it is worth noting that Wyatt Earp did not die in any gunfight but rather at home at the age of 80.

We don't live in Wyatt Earp's society nor are we limited to his gun technology now, but have many choices and philosophies to choose from. There are opinions about high capacity mags and size of the pistols used being critical to the decisions we make about what and how to carry.

After reviewing my skills that would be used in a actual gunfight I found them to be seriously wanting. I am above average shot with a handgun but not trained nor active in combat type shooting events. I know I need more training and that's ok.

However it seems prudent to think that whatever we carry, whether it be large and high cap or small and minimum rounds, is to .............be accurate.

Carry what we shoot accurately.

Certainly the idea that they can be deployed more quickly is nonsense. Much easier to handle full sized guns.

Small light-weight DAO revolver can be fired from inside of jacket pocket (S&W 340,342,...). Obviously this can only be done at very close range defensive encounter. One up for the revolver and quicker guy......one down for the slower and.....

Can you even own a handgun over there?

Slavek's mindless assertion aside, there are a lot of old myths still being promulgated. The old horseshit that "gun games will get you killed on the street" is mostly promoted by the uninformed. The games are tests of speed, accuracy, gun handling and problem solving not tactics. Those skills are handy when applied to good tactics. Go shoot an USPSA match and make only A zone hits and finish in the upper 30% if you want a challenge that is close to realistic. Slow is just slow, modern standards call for surgical shooting quickly and the cool guys can do it while moving quickly.

There is a whole new world of capabilites out there that are well proven in the real world. To fail or choose to recognize and take advantage of hard won knowledge is obtuse. No one is saying it is easy but it is fun to try to improve constantly, if you think you are good enough you probably aren't.


mike r

Good post.

MM

^^^This^^^

Very comfortable 95% of the time with my Sig P-365
Best “small” carry gun I’ve owned in a long time. With the 12 round mag installed and one in the chamber + a spare 15 rounder in my pocket I feel pretty well armed. It’s accurate, reliable, and very concealable too.

That being said, my Glock 32, an AR-15, and a 870 Tac 14 12 ga reside permanently in my truck. Which I’m never far away from. 🤠

Very good post. Practice is important that is why members of special units practice all the time using big guns. They use guns to make a living, therefore, they need to be fast and accurate.

Yep. Still carry a Ruger LCP 380 in my left front pocket. Old habits die hard. 🤠

These is great little defense or backup pistols. Hard to shoot well, but very easy to conceal and carry.

The uninformed, and those who never stood a chance at winning anyway so they just sit around and complain about "tactics". IME the guys who immediately complain about tactics are the same guys who couldn't shoot all A hits in a field course if you timed them with a sun dial. It's an excuse, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't want to participate in the sport of soccer, but I don't sit around complaining about how stupid it is or how lame those guys are. I just say, "That sport isn't for me."

Frank Proctor was a SF firearms instructor and after he went to his first USPSA match he said he realized just how bad of a shooter he was.

Learning occurs when you realize what you don't know.

mike r

I definitely see the benefit of gaining speed with accuracy. I also like to figure out the scenarios and have a good time with it. I see it as a sport, and without rules and procedures, it would be pretty hard to find out who wins. I do well in regards to accuracy and even raw speed...I just end up eating lots of procedurals. Forgetting to take a step this way before firing, or I’ll pie a corner rather than staying tight to cover, that kind of stuff.

No matter if it's a game or real life, life & death, there is no downside to being accurate with speed.

Some of it for some people is somewhat instinctive & they lose less of an edge than others w/o as much practice.

For most of us, it takes a fair amount of ongoing & constant practice to even maintain whatever level we may be at.

MM

Col Charles Askins, who was in more than a couple of gunfights, said he felt far more pressure shooting the National Pistol Championships than any gunfight he was in. Practice is always good, no matter what the discipline. It also breeds confidence. Accuracy, coupled with speed from constant repetition, along with the confidence that you'll win is always a good thing.
Bob

To the OP's question, I'm increasingly of the mind that the need for smaller portable hand carry is being overcome by a heftier requirement. This struck home when I reviewed the video of the shooting at the church in White Settlement, TX, but is reinforced by other clues too.

I have formally trained on the Glock 21, but am also self taught on smaller handguns of 9mm or thereabouts. I am now of the opinion that it is time to merge my formal training with my EDC. So big and slow, and lots of it are becoming more important. God help me if I ever have to use it in a real life situation to protect myself or loved ones, as I will if I have to.

So "good enough and plenty of it" = the new standard. For me, a full capacity .45.

And for the woods a .44Mag in a chest holster. Working on some 300 grain handloads for that, Using 240's now,

Performing under pressure, shooting fast and accurately, and the larger volume of practice to be good at that are things where gun games are helpful. But there are plenty of things where gun games have nothing to do with fighting, and can build bad habits. Most of that is necessary for safety in events with a large number of shooters, no argument there, but the fact remains those rules go out the window in a fight. One example is moving while shooting, vs gun games rules of shooting from stationary positions or inside a box. The gear is another one - competitive competition gear rarely has much in common with carry guns/gear.

My original comment about gun games was not that there is nothing useful to learn (I know I got a lot better at shooting when I started competing and shooting more), but that the guys who think they've learned all they need to know from gun games are missing a lot. They guys commenting that they just ignore the penalties and shoot the stages to build skill with their carry gun have the right idea, IMO, as long as the awareness remains that shooting skill is only one part of the right skillsets and mindset for carrying and being prepared for a fight.