Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR-15 For Repelling Boarders, Red Dot or Traditional Peep Sight?

That's not horrid. All on target at 200 yards.

I'm guessing the offhand were the low shots?

10-4 LD, same/same here, I talked then refused to send mine in to warranty/refund guy too, never had a problem with any of them, it's not like they're a NightForce scope type aiming device, batt life and reticle clarity for what they are has been fine too.

Yes, aim those damn scatterguns, my 11 shot 870 12ga has a little glowing green bead looking back at me, 20 pellets of #1 copper plated buck in a 2-3/4ths hull will leave a mark.

I have patterned my shotgun at 10 and 20 yds. At 10 yd s with rem. 4 buck the bulk of the pattern in 12" with 2 or 3 pellets 5 to 6" high, and a couple pellets about the same low, hence my number of 2 .5' pattern. Maybe I should have been more specific.

Did you mean to say you get a 30 inch pattern at 25 Yards?

How big is your house that you can take 25 yard shots going room to room?

Sorry for the typo. Meant 25 yds. The last time I patterned it at 20 yds , the majority of the pattern was in an 18 inch circle, with 2 or 3 pellets about 4" higher, and a couple of pelllets lower. Federal shells at 2 5 yds have a slightly tighter pattern, but not much. Neither shells have flight control wads, that is why the " fliers" I think. From my bedroom door to the front door is 38', which doesn't let the pattern open up alot, but would still be hard on someone in the hallway.

MM, if I remember right, I thought the low shots were from sitting position. I actually didn't go check em till all shots were fired but I told my buddy I was pretty sure I kept dropping off the target from sitting position. Something about getting as comfortable as you can and knowing you're not on target but shooting anyway cause you know it's not gonna get any better...

Prone however was pretty solid when I switched to a 40 round mag for the extra height. Standing was just pressing the trigger as the dot started across the target. I have lot's of work to do.

I hear ya. Offhand at 200 yards was always where I dropped most points on the USMC rifle requal range, where distances were 200, 300, and 500 yards.

Just like you, I would try to let the round fly as the front sight was crossing the black of the target.

If your wife or child is being used as a shield and all you can see is the BGs head they may appreciate your being able to keep all shots w/in 6" at any distance available in your house. We don't get to dictate the circumstances. Just a thought to confuse the issue, standards exist for a reason.


mike r

LOL! Copy that! Those light little guns are harder to hit with, no doubt about it.

I wonder if some people are so familiar with an AR that they might be able to hit with it in a high stress situation? I wonder if an AR set up with a red dot and a flashlight might be very fast in target acquisition and firing a round? I guess if a man uses his shotgun more than his AR he should use a shotgun, and vice versa. Only thing I tend to forget is the round is going to land about 3.5 inches low at 10 feet.

Yessir widows peak hold with a dot up close.

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. You just need to be proficient with what you choose to use.

That is the real world bottom line. Many new/casual users don't understand shotgun patterns or offset w/ a red dot sight. Watching guys w/ ARs shooting the crap out of barricades in classes is a good lesson. This stuff isn't rocket science but actually proving it through practice is the only answer.


mike r

25 feet my pattern with buckshot is about like an 8 inch paper plate. If it was almost 3 feet wide it could be a useful swarm.

What ammo( I know 4 buck) and what choke to get that wide a pattern at 8 steps. Heck the wads are dang near still with the shot at that range.

And at 10 feet, if you hit 3 inches low and don't kill, you have other problems.

This thread demonstrates everything I hate about shotguns.

First, we hear that a shotgun will "clear a hall". Well, at my house the hall is about 36" wide. Then we hear the shotgun pattern is actually 12" wide. That doesn't clear a hall. That doesn't even clear half a hall. That clears 2/3 of 1/2 of a hall.

So, you've gotta aim. And "not aiming" is the big benefit that everyone raves about with shotguns. Because they don't know what they're talking about.




If I'm gonna aim, I'm gonna aim the gun that's lighter, that's faster to shoot for follow up shots, that holds more ammunition, and that does all of that with nearly no recoil.

Realizing fully this in an AR forum, but, this thread and a few posts therein caused me to go grab a cardboard box and my 12ga 870 house gun, I stepped off the absolute longest ranges I could take inside the house, one was 18 yards, the other 22 yards, so I split the difference and set the box at 20 yards.

The pattern from one shot of Winchester X12C1B put all 20 of the hardened copper plated #1 buckshot pellets in about a 10x12 inch pattern on the box, I have the modified choke tube in the shotgun for #1 buck, so damn right, we need to aim those shotguns too, a fun little back porch session this morning.

Hope some here can find the info useful.

FWIW, those round shotgun pellets deflect and ricochet a HELLUVA lot more than rifle and even handgun rounds, inside structures. Nothing ‘wrong’ with a shotgun in CQ, but it takes at least as much consideration and training to be effective as any other choice....not necessarily less.

Each buckshot pellet shares a reduced portion of the entire load's energy.
Rapid energy loss occurs through ejecta and poor coefficients.
Stopping power is a legitimate concern, as multiple pellet hits IS a requirement to achieve fast stops.
Aim is a must, and there must be control of the entire payload through proper choke/load combination. Testing.

Sectional density and available energy of a soft lead round ball/plated shot compared to a well designed rifle bullet, big differences.
Dependable, powerful results on target. Rifle.

Inside the house, I want the fight stopped as fast as possible.

Exactly. 1" per yard, or 5 inches at 5 yards. Average size room in a house is 5-10 yards, i.e. 15-30 feet. Pattern is only 10" wide at 30 feet. Easy to miss if you are not aiming or proficient. May as well have a pistol with a MWL. Street sweepers are a complete misnomer inside a house.