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Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
It’s official. We are a bunch of pansies as a whole country.

“Hey, you’re probably gonna get sick and a very, very small percent will die”

Us: run the [bleep] home and shut down restaurants , schools, and wait for the TV to tell us what to do.


We didn't run home. We're being forced to. Because they're taking over.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by drover

While any number of deaths is sad I wonder what is different that we have chosen to ruin the economy and put many workers into a situation that they will never financially recover from. Is there a logic that I am missing?

drover


Well, how about the logic behind the assertion that many workers will never recover? Where does that come from?



There is a lot of available data to support it. Google something along the lines of "how many workers live pay check to pay check". It doesn't take rocket science to find it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfr...ycheck-government-shutdown/#6042056e4f10

https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/

A great many of the folks who are being put out of work are the waitresses, cooks, hotel/motel staff, vendors at sports stadiums. Not to disparage people who make their living like that but those are not generally well paid jobs and if they had the skills or training they would likely be working at a job for higher wages. Their rent and other overhead costs continue on even when they are unemployed, when working a $7.00 - $10.00 per hour job and you get behind on everything catching up becomes very difficult.

drover



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Well, don't know how it will pan out, no one really does, but there is this...

Spanish flu from January 1918 to December 1920, it infected 500 million people—about one third of the world's population at the time.
Number of deaths: 50,000,000.
Deaths in US: 675,000.

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Panic gives people some excitement. What nasty thing could, might, maybe happen is always a thrill. I had an old friend who said this with regards to bull riding:
"Nobody wants anybody to get hurt. Nobody wants anyone to get killed. But if it's gonna happen anyway, I kinda wanna be there to see it."

Besides, keeping the economy going won't get Trump out of office, now will it?


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Predicted deaths in US using current guidlines 100,000,-200000 .Predicted deaths in US by letting it run it's course with no guidelines 1.5-2 million people.I hope all the ignorant ones saying there is no problem get away with not taking the infection home to their kids, parents or grandparents and have one of those family members die.

Th longer those with their head up their butts refuse to follow the prescribed guidelines, the longer all of us are going to have to put up with them.There are a heck of a lot of smarter people than you saying there is a problem.

To all saying there is no problem and let it run it run it's course, what will you say when it is one of your family that dies?

We lived and rebounded from Rationing and slumped economy iWWII , and we will do it again .Sadly those that are no sayers probably were not old enough suffer thru that. Your greed and selfishness is showing.


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Predicted deaths in US using current guidlines 100,000,-200000 .Predicted deaths in US by letting it run it's course with no guidelines 1.5-2 million people.I hope all the ignorant ones saying there is no problem get away with not taking the infection home to their kids, parents or grandparents and have one of those family members die.

Th longer those with their head up their butts refuse to follow the prescribed guidelines, the longer all of us are going to have to put up with them.There are a heck of a lot of smarter people than you saying there is a problem.

To all saying there is no problem and let it run it run it's course, what will you say when it is one of your family that dies?

We lived and rebounded from Rationing and slumped economy iWWII , and we will do it again .Sadly those that are no sayers probably were not old enough suffer thru that. Your greed and selfishness is showing.


I agree saddle sore.


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Some could make a case that the vulnerable asking the rest of the country to shut down and go broke so they can avoid it are the selfish greedy ones?

How about some personal responsibility? if you are vulnerable or scared stay home.

Freedom and personal responsibility, it's a thing this country used to believe in.

Self quarantine... I don't believe I am in the vulnerable category, but I don't go out, and I sure as hell have no business telling another man he can't work and feed his family!


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Originally Posted by irfubar
Some could make a case that the vulnerable asking the rest of the country to shut down and go broke so they can avoid it are the selfish greedy ones?

How about some personal responsibility? if you are vulnerable or scared stay home.

Freedom and personal responsibility, it's a thing this country used to believe in.

Self quarantine... I don't believe I am in the vulnerable category, but I don't go out, and I sure as hell have no business telling another man he can't work and feed his family!

You talk about personal responsibility. What about personal responsibility to protect and respect your family.

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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by RAS
In Japan, they are all wearing masks and other PPE.

But they are going to work.

We can’t sustain this. People in public need to wear PPE, use common sense, and go back to work.

Otherwise, get ready to see your children and grandchildren in bread lines.


You nailed it. The bulk of our problem appears to be lack of common sense.

Can’t mandate or force that on any sumbitch. Ain’t no laws against it either.


Japan shut down early and stopped it before it got a good start. They've already had all schools across the country closed for a month. That's why they are back to work.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Predicted deaths in US using current guidlines 100,000,-200000 .Predicted deaths in US by letting it run it's course with no guidelines 1.5-2 million people.I hope all the ignorant ones saying there is no problem get away with not taking the infection home to their kids, parents or grandparents and have one of those family members die.

Th longer those with their head up their butts refuse to follow the prescribed guidelines, the longer all of us are going to have to put up with them.There are a heck of a lot of smarter people than you saying there is a problem.

To all saying there is no problem and let it run it run it's course, what will you say when it is one of your family that dies?

We lived and rebounded from Rationing and slumped economy iWWII , and we will do it again .Sadly those that are no sayers probably were not old enough suffer thru that. Your greed and selfishness is showing.


Agreed n well said

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Originally Posted by drover
I find it odd that we have shut down the country and disrupted the economy over the CV-19 pandemic.

While any number of deaths is sad I wonder what is different that we have chosen to ruin the economy and put many workers into a situation that they will never financially recover from. Is there a logic that I am missing? It seems heartless to say it but perhaps the country would have been better off if the CV would have been allowed to run its course without all of the drastic measures being taken.

1957-1958 Pandemic (H2N2 virus) - The estimated number of deaths was 1.1 million worldwide and 116,000 in the United States.

1968 Pandemic (H3N2 virus) - The estimated number of deaths was 1 million worldwide and about 100,000 in the United States.

CV-19 - (the most recent count) - number of deaths world wide - 45,497 and 4,476 in the United States

drover


What the alternate scenario.

How many would die if we did nothing?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by xarcher
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by tpcollins
I posted this on another forum:

****************************************************

Not to downplay or minimize anything, but I was listening to Rush today while my wife and I were walking the dog. So I looked up worldwide death causes when I got home - comparing current corvid19 deaths versus others for the entire year in 2019.


Corvid19 - 46,062 in 1st 3 months

Suicides - 800,000 / 4 = 200,000 per 3 months
Car accidents - 1,300,000 / 4 = 325,000 per 3 months
HIV/Aids - 1,700,000 / 4 = 425,000 per 3 months
Smoking - 5,000,000 / 4 = 1,250,000 per 3 months
Cancer - 8,200,000 / 4 = 2,050,000 per 3 months
Abortion - 42,300,00 / 4 = 10,575,000 per 3 months

That’s 13,775,000 deaths per 3 months and regular influenza wasn’t even mentioned.


https://decisionmagazine.com/abortion-leading-cause-death-worldwide-2019/


The only thing seen in your data that’s contagious appears to be HIV.

Correlation ?

Furthermore, it’s not possible to get HIV by shaking someone’s hand or going out to dinner with another. There is no correlation.

So for those that say take off the handcuffs and let it take its course, you’re willing to transfer the virus to your children, grandchildren, spouse, parents, etc? Didn’t think so.


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Predicted deaths in US using current guidlines 100,000,-200000 .Predicted deaths in US by letting it run it's course with no guidelines 1.5-2 million people.I hope all the ignorant ones saying there is no problem get away with not taking the infection home to their kids, parents or grandparents and have one of those family members die.

Th longer those with their head up their butts refuse to follow the prescribed guidelines, the longer all of us are going to have to put up with them.There are a heck of a lot of smarter people than you saying there is a problem.

To all saying there is no problem and let it run it run it's course, what will you say when it is one of your family that dies?

We lived and rebounded from Rationing and slumped economy iWWII , and we will do it again .Sadly those that are no sayers probably were not old enough suffer thru that. Your greed and selfishness is showing.

Wish it were that simple Saddle. Folks today aren't the same. No grit. Those who have it and will do the work will be absolutely raped by the government to take care of the useless and lazy.


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Originally Posted by tpcollins
I posted this on another forum:

****************************************************

Not to downplay or minimize anything, but I was listening to Rush today while my wife and I were walking the dog. So I looked up worldwide death causes when I got home - comparing current corvid19 deaths versus others for the entire year in 2019.


Corvid19 - 46,062 in 1st 3 months

Suicides - 800,000 / 4 = 200,000 per 3 months
Car accidents - 1,300,000 / 4 = 325,000 per 3 months
HIV/Aids - 1,700,000 / 4 = 425,000 per 3 months
Smoking - 5,000,000 / 4 = 1,250,000 per 3 months
Cancer - 8,200,000 / 4 = 2,050,000 per 3 months
Abortion - 42,300,00 / 4 = 10,575,000 per 3 months

That’s 13,775,000 deaths per 3 months and regular influenza wasn’t even mentioned.


https://decisionmagazine.com/abortion-leading-cause-death-worldwide-2019/


I don't know where some of this bullchit data comes from, but the suicide rate you referenced is completely ridiculous. The accurate data for suicide for 2018 and 2019 is just north of 48,000 each year. You might consider checking to see if something is correct before posting it. You look like a fool when you post [bleep] like that.

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Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Predicted deaths in US using current guidlines 100,000,-200000 .Predicted deaths in US by letting it run it's course with no guidelines 1.5-2 million people.I hope all the ignorant ones saying there is no problem get away with not taking the infection home to their kids, parents or grandparents and have one of those family members die.

Th longer those with their head up their butts refuse to follow the prescribed guidelines, the longer all of us are going to have to put up with them.There are a heck of a lot of smarter people than you saying there is a problem.

To all saying there is no problem and let it run it run it's course, what will you say when it is one of your family that dies?

We lived and rebounded from Rationing and slumped economy iWWII , and we will do it again .Sadly those that are no sayers probably were not old enough suffer thru that. Your greed and selfishness is showing.


I agree saddle sore.
Me too. Well said.

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Here is a link to the best article i have seen related to the CV pandemic. No one knows if what we are doing is correct and even afterwards we will always wonder if we should have done more or less. I surely do not have an answer but I wonder if anyone does, this article seems to sum it up from the way I see it.


https://www.city-journal.org./1957-asian-flu-pandemic

The article -

Surrounded by amulets of the coronavirus crisis, I stare out my window at a city that may or may not be on the verge of disaster. To my right is a case of canned pasta. To my left are cartons of corned-beef hash from New Jersey and bottled water from Maine. I’m ready for whatever comes.

Except, I’m not ready. In fact, even at my advanced 80-something age, I find the whole Covid-19 panic to be strange and troubling. I’ve lived through epidemics before, but they didn’t crash the stock market, wreck a booming economy, and shut down international travel. They didn’t stop the St. Patrick’s Day parade or the NCAA basketball tournament, and they didn’t drop the curtain on Broadway shows. Will these extreme measures have any real effect on the spread of Covid-19 in New York, or America? We’re about to find out.

My first encounter with a global pandemic came in October 1957, when I spent a week in my college infirmary with a case of the H2N2 virus, known at the time by the politically incorrect name of “Asian flu.” My fever spiked to 105, and I was sicker than I’d ever been. The infirmary quickly filled with other cases, though some ailing students toughed it out in their dorm rooms with aspirin and orange juice. The college itself did not close, and the surrounding town did not impose restrictions on public gatherings. The day that I was discharged from the infirmary, I played in an intercollegiate soccer game, which drew a big crowd.

It’s not that Asian flu—the second influenza pandemic of the twentieth century—wasn’t a serious disease. Worldwide, this flu strain killed somewhere between 1 and 2 million people. More than 100,000 died in the U.S. alone. And yet, to the best of my knowledge, governors did not call out the National Guard, and political panic-mongers did not blame it all on President Eisenhower. College sports events were not cancelled, planes and trains continued to run, and Americans did not regard one another with fear and suspicion, touching elbows instead of hands. We took the Asian flu in stride. We said our prayers and took our chances.

Today, I look back and wonder if an oblivious America faced the 1957 plague with a kind of clueless folly. Why weren’t we more active in fighting this contagion? Could stricter quarantine procedures have reduced the rate of infection and lowered the death toll? In short, why weren’t we more afraid?

It’s hard to answer that question without explaining what it was like to grow up in an age of infectious illness. My mother once showed me a list of the contagious diseases she survived before the age of 20. On the list were the usual childhood illnesses, along with deadly afflictions like typhoid fever, pneumonia, diphtheria (it killed her older brother), scarlet fever, and the lethal 1918–19 Spanish flu, which took more than 50 million lives around the world.

For those who grew up in the 1930s and 1940s, there was nothing unusual about finding yourself threatened by contagious disease. Mumps, measles, chicken pox, and German measles swept through entire schools and towns; I had all four. Polio took a heavy annual toll, leaving thousands of people (mostly children) paralyzed or dead. There were no vaccines. Growing up meant running an unavoidable gauntlet of infectious disease. For college students in 1957, the Asian flu was a familiar hurdle on the road to adulthood. For everyone older, the flu was a familiar foe. There was no possibility of working at home. You had to go out and face the danger.

Today, thanks to vaccines, fewer and fewer people remember what it was like to survive a succession of childhood diseases. Is the unfamiliar threat of serious sickness making us more afraid of Covid-19 than we need to be? Does a society that relies more on politics than faith now find itself in an uncomfortable bind, unable to lecture, browbeat, intimidate, or evade the incorrect behavior of a dangerous microbe?

When the coronavirus finally runs its course, one of the most important tasks for health-care officials will be to determine whether the preventive measures we’re taking today were effective. Did deploying the National Guard save lives, or did it simply expose the soldiers to an infection that, in the end, could not be stopped? Did we pay too high a price for tanking our economy and disrupting our society?

Or did we get it right, acting quickly and decisively to slow the virus, shutting down possible pathways of infection? By comparing the 2020 data with information from 1957, we’ll also be able to find out if the strange people who lived in that distant year—and I remember them well—could have done more to reduce the death toll of the Asian flu. The more answers we get, and the sooner we get them, the better it will be for everyone. When the curtain goes up on Broadway again, somewhere in a faraway continent to be named later, we can be sure that new viruses will be waiting in the wings.

Last edited by drover; 04/01/20.

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Originally Posted by BangPop
Originally Posted by tpcollins
I posted this on another forum:

****************************************************

Not to downplay or minimize anything, but I was listening to Rush today while my wife and I were walking the dog. So I looked up worldwide death causes when I got home - comparing current corvid19 deaths versus others for the entire year in 2019.


Corvid19 - 46,062 in 1st 3 months

Suicides - 800,000 / 4 = 200,000 per 3 months
Car accidents - 1,300,000 / 4 = 325,000 per 3 months
HIV/Aids - 1,700,000 / 4 = 425,000 per 3 months
Smoking - 5,000,000 / 4 = 1,250,000 per 3 months
Cancer - 8,200,000 / 4 = 2,050,000 per 3 months
Abortion - 42,300,00 / 4 = 10,575,000 per 3 months

That’s 13,775,000 deaths per 3 months and regular influenza wasn’t even mentioned.


https://decisionmagazine.com/abortion-leading-cause-death-worldwide-2019/


I don't know where some of this bullchit data comes from, but the suicide rate you referenced is completely ridiculous. The accurate data for suicide for 2018 and 2019 is just north of 48,000 each year. You might consider checking to see if something is correct before posting it. You look like a fool when you post [bleep] like that.

WORLDWIDE statitics ...


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Originally Posted by BangPop
Originally Posted by tpcollins
I posted this on another forum:

****************************************************

Not to downplay or minimize anything, but I was listening to Rush today while my wife and I were walking the dog. So I looked up worldwide death causes when I got home - comparing current corvid19 deaths versus others for the entire year in 2019.


Corvid19 - 46,062 in 1st 3 months

Suicides - 800,000 / 4 = 200,000 per 3 months
Car accidents - 1,300,000 / 4 = 325,000 per 3 months
HIV/Aids - 1,700,000 / 4 = 425,000 per 3 months
Smoking - 5,000,000 / 4 = 1,250,000 per 3 months
Cancer - 8,200,000 / 4 = 2,050,000 per 3 months
Abortion - 42,300,00 / 4 = 10,575,000 per 3 months

That’s 13,775,000 deaths per 3 months and regular influenza wasn’t even mentioned.


https://decisionmagazine.com/abortion-leading-cause-death-worldwide-2019/


I don't know where some of this bullchit data comes from, but the suicide rate you referenced is completely ridiculous. The accurate data for suicide for 2018 and 2019 is just north of 48,000 each year. You might consider checking to see if something is correct before posting it. You look like a fool when you post [bleep] like that.



Here you go dumbass - World Wide:

https://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suicideprevent/en/

Last edited by tpcollins; 04/01/20.
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Originally Posted by BangPop
Originally Posted by tpcollins
I posted this on another forum:

****************************************************

Not to downplay or minimize anything, but I was listening to Rush today while my wife and I were walking the dog. So I looked up worldwide death causes when I got home - comparing current corvid19 deaths versus others for the entire year in 2019.


Corvid19 - 46,062 in 1st 3 months

Suicides - 800,000 / 4 = 200,000 per 3 months
Car accidents - 1,300,000 / 4 = 325,000 per 3 months
HIV/Aids - 1,700,000 / 4 = 425,000 per 3 months
Smoking - 5,000,000 / 4 = 1,250,000 per 3 months
Cancer - 8,200,000 / 4 = 2,050,000 per 3 months
Abortion - 42,300,00 / 4 = 10,575,000 per 3 months

That’s 13,775,000 deaths per 3 months and regular influenza wasn’t even mentioned.


https://decisionmagazine.com/abortion-leading-cause-death-worldwide-2019/


I don't know where some of this bullchit data comes from, but the suicide rate you referenced is completely ridiculous. The accurate data for suicide for 2018 and 2019 is just north of 48,000 each year. You might consider checking to see if something is correct before posting it. You look like a fool when you post [bleep] like that.


His suicide number comes from the World Health Organization website. After reading your post insulting his intelligence, I did a quick search. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the WHO number, but it is there if you care to look. I'd post the link, but, I'm a bit ashamed to admit, I don't know how. Perhaps you missed the part where he said "worldwide", not just America.

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Originally Posted by irfubar
Some could make a case that the vulnerable asking the rest of the country to shut down and go broke so they can avoid it are the selfish greedy ones?

How about some personal responsibility? if you are vulnerable or scared stay home.

Freedom and personal responsibility, it's a thing this country used to believe in.

Self quarantine... I don't believe I am in the vulnerable category, but I don't go out, and I sure as hell have no business telling another man he can't work and feed his family!


Do we have the right to cancel a concert this week in the middle of Seattle?
Or the right to close Florida beaches during Spring Break?
Or the right to cancel sporting events which draw huge crowds?

There are lots of comparisons being made to recent, fairly innocuous so called "pandemics". In reality by the time this one is over, the only fair comparison will be H1N1 of 1918.


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