Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What is a greater worry to you? CV-19 or Economy?

I think Trump knows best how to handle this and as he has said, the economy will soon come roaring back.

You fail to distinguish between the previous administration and the new one.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/gene...efend-our-country-regardless-of-the-cost

Fear-mongering tyranny and loss of freedom

Well, you're supposed to be happy to give it all up in the hope of adding 8-10 months to the life of the overweight chain-smoker who is already dying of diabetes and COPD. His poor choices are much more valuable than your hard work and good choices. It's easy for others to make that choice for you.


I failed to indicate any administration at all, since that is not what I was talking about.

Of immediate concern is the virus and it's potential to harm our families and friends. Of slightly less concern is it's potential to harm me. Although I'm of advanced middle age (70), I don't feel all that vulnerable. In addition, we are pretty isolated. We have family members though, who are vulnerable. We may not see our parents (in their 90's) again. Other family members with health issues are definitely at risk. Too many of the guys I shoot with are at risk.
Going forward, the economy has to be of great concern. Devaluation of monies is certainly possible. This means our cash in the safe, our savings, our pensions may all be devalued. In addition, a significant source of our income is a small business which depends on disposable income and I suspect we will take a hit of at least 50% this year and can't guess what might happen next year. We won't get this back. It will be a while before real estate values get back to where they were. GD

This shutdown nonsense will end far more lives than the virus. People will turn to drugs--and suicide--in despair. Depression will grow. Many jobs will never come back. Those who dreamed of starting a small business will have their dreams shattered.

They're already talking about nationalizing the airlines and Boeing. The alternative is the airlines and Boeing will go out of business. This crap will wreck our country.

You are going to see massive default on all forms of debt. The banks may not be able to survive the hit.

There were 6.6 million new unemployment filings last week. The previous record, the week before that, was 3.3 million. Since 1967, there were never more than 600,000. They are wrecking our country and our people because of some disease that "might" be as serious as the 1957-58 or the 1968 flu, both of which killed 100,000 people. Nobody knows.

The shutdown panic makes as much sense as abolishing automobile driving. After all, traffic accidents claim 40,000 lives each year.

So stop it!

Reality.

Economy.

The problem I have with the decisions being made now are that there is no checks or balances, you basically have one person or one school of thought. I don't think anyone had seriously considered the long term implications of a prolonged economic retraction when the decisions to shut the economy down were made. We are basically being drove off a cliff and the driver is there to ensure us that, trust me, this is the only way.

^^This^^

If you were asked to define life, would you define it as life = work, or life = income, or life = ‘any’ material thing...?

Very well said!

Actually it is. The 2007-2009 recession caused 5,000 more suicides than would otherwise have occurred.

I admit that destroying our economy will save "some" lives.

And outlawing motor vehicles will save "some" lives.

And outlawing guns will save "some" lives.

Where do you stop?

The immediate concern is an out of control virus. Wife is on oral chemo at 47 and I had some previous lung issues. We still have kids at home. We need to be around for a while longer. I'm thinking 90 days - July 1 and this thing will be under control. There will still be social distancing and masks being worn everywhere much like just about every Asian in every airport you've seen since H1N1 hit. We have the smartest people in the world working around the clock to get a handle on this thing. I think you'll see treatment therapies in 60 days or less and a vaccine by time the leaves start turning.

The economy is solid in the short term. There's a lag before it actually hits the fan. America has been here before. We WILL bounce back. The market peaked on 12FEB. Bear markets usually last 206 days. However, we have DJT driving the ship now. NO other President has been so uniquely prepared to handle this sort of economic crisis. I think you'll see critical manufacturing return to our shores. I believe there will be a swing from Globalism to Nationalism. I believe this will carry him through the election. Churchill wasn't the smoothest PM the UK ever had, but he wasn't a pussy like his predecessor. The parallels here are strong. I've said it before, I think this will be DJT's finest moment. He ain't no pussy either.

My concern with the virus has dropped. I believe that we will have about 60,000 deaths this year to the Covid 19 pandemic. This is from my earlier estimate of more than 250,000. I believe that Trump will cut through red tape and get chit done. I believe that after NY and the various chit hole cities have it it will decline. I have noticed a great change in people's behavior in the last week. People are getting serious and I think that we will soon have herd immunity with enough ventilators to help nearly everybody. I believe that the economy will bounce back quickly. Trump needs to make sure that people understand that our nation's fundamentals are strong and that we have a global energy glut that we need to capitalize on. We need to use some of this money falling from the sky to build new manufacturing facilities and the government needs to re-train those in sectors that are falling apart.

Trump needs to come out with ( We won't tolerate CCP crap anymore). We are going to form a trade alliance with nations screwed over by CCP and we are going to get better. He can tighten monetary policy later on but he needs to smile to the public and say Xi needs to be gone, WHO needs to be restructured and he is going on a victory tour.

The economy, by an order of magnitude.

Consequences of Economic Self-Sabotage and Poor Leadership
1. Economic Destruction
2. Anarcho-Tyranny
3. Profound Social Unrest

Despite:
1. Wife's profession placing her and the family at greatly elevated risk of exposure.
2. Parents all aged and with some issue that would put them under if they got a nasty upper respiratory infection.


Economic Destruction
Thing is, "the economy" is not just retirement accounts and slimy hedge fund managers. The scum in the financial sector will be made whole. That is what the stimulus package was all about: prioritizing Wall Street over Main Street. That is what tthe Federal Reserve and Treasure Dept take as their #1 mission.

"The Economy" is real men & women working, producing things, and making things happen in our world. People who work real jobs rely on exchanging their productivity for pay. Our ruling class has just decided to torpedo that and expects all the real people who work to do the damage control while they and their financial sector buddies on the sun deck sip fancy cocktails and bang waitresses in their cabins. Hanging's too good for them.

When "the economy" tanks, decent, productive people take it in the face. The ruling class, their financial sector paymasters, and the worthless sponges will hardly feel a bump. Real people, MY people will suffer. And more of them will die in the ensuing recession/depression that will die directly(1) from the Kung Flu. Many more will suffer needlessly because our ruling class is filled with corrupt fools from front to back.


Anarcho-Tyranny
"...a definition of the system of government I have called "anarcho-tyranny": a combination of anarchy (in which legitimate government functions—like spying on the bad guys or punishing real criminals—are not performed) and tyranny (in which government performs illegitimate functions—like spying on the good guys or criminalizing innocent conduct like gun ownership and political dissent)."
----Sam Francis
https://vdare.com/articles/mass-immigration-feckless-feds-anarcho-tyranny

We yipyap on this site about staying in and avoiding contact due to unconstitutional orders by governors & others. Other gov't pooh-bahs are enacting even more tyrannical rules. Some of the ruling class's enforcement goons (LEOs) are even enforcing them...against MY sort of people. Meanwhile, the swarthy sorts go about having block parties, hanging out in the street in close proximity, etc. They are generally less hygenic than my sorts and are better disease vectors. Yet, LEOs are not stopping it.

And if we think gov't will give up its "emergency" powers, you are mistaken.

Profound Social Unrest
Our ruling class is not capable of dealing with existential threats anymore. And they are not smart enough or moral enough to discern between an existential threat to our society or nation and an existential threat to the ruling class. The combination of ruling class incapability, incompetence, and immorality are an almost sure recipe for social unrest.

Our ruling class (and now Trump, too) have screwed this pooch so hard that they have nearly set up the conditions for a civilizational upheaval.
1. Media hyped Kung Flu to meme it into a weapon against Trump, despite it being of similar threat manitude to SARS, MERS, or Swine flu.
2. Trump political enemies piled on
3. Attention and fund-seeking medical/political types like the liar Fauci turn up the heat.
4. Trump bends to the will of his weak-spined advisers and now owns the economic torpedoing.

Trump has placed his bet and now owns the Kung Flu issue and its later fallout. He is doing well in the moment, but I recall GHWB with 90%+ approval ratings during Gulf War I and then losing to a slick weasel from Arkansas.

Thing is, severe economic pain makes a lot of people who have nothing to lose, many of who are generally capable and employable (unlike welfare sponges). They now are hurting and have time on their hands and are looking for someone to blame. They may blame Trump. They may blame the ruling class. The amplitude and direction of the unrest is not knowable. Folks on the left think the disaffected will drift to the fringe left. Folks on the right think the disaffected will drift to the fringe right. I suspect that our ruling class will not have what it takes to keep the USA together.





(1) The folks who die despite having no co-morbidity.

I think we should also include on the economy side of the ledger all the consequences of the other decisions being made to "flatten the curve". Some localities are releasing inmates to slow down the spread. At the same time, the cities are announcing that they will no longer be enforcing minor violations like theft and such. How long before people start protecting their goods with violence? And when that happens, who will the police arrest?

Now you have a bunch of criminals free to act without govt intervention, citizens desperate enough to shoot people over property, and then those desperate people being saddled with more debt to hire a lawyer.

Once this is sorted out a bit, I wonder if rural real estate prices will spike, as people with the ability to do so get out of urban areas. This has already been happening, but may really accelerate.

For me personally? Quality. Sitting in a wet diaper with no visitors is not appealing to me in the least. That is why I choose not to smoke, drink excessively, participate in exceedingly dangerous activities - especially when I had kids at home who needed me. I try to stay fit (not as much as I would like), eat well, etc. Does that make me think that I am better than anyone else? No. I just tried (and often failed) to make decisions that made sense for me and my family. I see those decisions being duplicated by my kids, just as bad decisions seem to be passed down.
Those who have spent a lifetime doing the opposite have already made their choices many times over the years. Choices have consequences. If I chose to smoke for 40 years, I chose COPD and cancer and the fun that goes with it. Some people get hosed, no doubt about that. But overall, we choose our outcome, to a large degree. I guess that makes me pro-choice.

Does that mean that I don't have empathy for those who chose differently? Absolutely not. I have family members, whom I loved dearly, who are no longer with us because of the habits that I laid out above and more. I can't control that. And honestly? I wouldn't want to. Others either didn't engage in self destruction or stopped many years ago, They are still here, for the most part.

Implying (if you were) that being concerned about business and career is selfish or materialistic, I would argue that it isn't. It's how we feed our families. Choosing to build a business that will impact my family for years to come, or a career that can give them more options for how they live their lives, seems to be good thinking. Poverty offers much fewer options and forces many to make choices that are far from ideal. Had I chosen an easier path that gave me more time and less effort, my family would have fewer options. That would have been selfish and focused solely on my comfort. Choosing to use the power of government to dictate what others are forced to do with respect to the fruits of their labor is much more selfish, in my opinion. Using the power of government to confiscate the fruits of others in the hope that you will be thrown a scrap, is about as materialistic and selfish that one can be. Just my opinion. I would argue that some of the panic can be chalked up to schadenfreude and the excitement that it generates. Again, just my opinion.

It seems to me that a more sensible approach would have been for those who are at risk to shelter and protect themselves or be protected. If I were deathly allergic to shellfish, I wouldn't eat shellfish. That doesn't preclude you from chowing down on shrimp.

I sincerely hope that this runs its course with the fewest lives lost as possible and hope that we have fewer casualties, both lives and livelihoods, than have been guesstimated. - Be safe

Economy!!!! memtb

Collapse of the Economy, hands down, is the big issue.

The nation can survive with a fewer people, but it sure can't without a viable economy.