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I have a couple of foreign military rifles that my uncle brought/sent home while he was in Korea, both Arisaka Type 38 rifles in 6.5. While talking to my dad Saturday morning, telling him about the rifles, their condition and the fact that my uncle said he killed his deer every year (up until about 5yrs before his death) from the day he was discharged from the Army with those two rifles. He asked me how accurate they were. I didn't have an answer for him, but it has had me thinking about military rifles that haven't been touched/sporterized and their accuracy.

I also have his two Garands, one a standard M1 carbine and the other a standard issue M1 rifle. They are both in really good condition to have never seen much care or cleaning since he brought them home. He told me that they were military rifles that brought home while on leave. I am not sure if at some point he acquired them from the depotor PX or the backdoor, but the rifle has his initials and my aunts named carved in them. I have shot both of the Garand rifles and while I am sure in the right hands they are more accurate than they are for me, but I think I could kill a deer out to 100yds with the open sights. I have never shot either Arisaka, mostly because I didn't want to change his "zero" or search for ammo before I had all 4 of them deep cleaned and preserved hoping one day to donate them to a museum or give them to a descendant of the family. I tried to get him to tell me or have his service time documented for his daughter, but he never would talk about any portion of his time overseas.

Out of all of the mass produced military rifles around the world, in the original configuration, which rifle is considered the most accurate, and is it more of the caliber or the design that leads to this accuracy?

I think the Swiss K-31's, Swedish Mauser's and Finnish Mosin's are arguably the most accurate vintage milsurps. However, I've seen other bolt action milsurps shoot just as well, like some Enfield's, Springfield's and Mauser's. The Arisaka ought to shoot pretty good too, given bullets that match it's groove diameter, which can be weird. IIRC, those have an odd number of grooves which makes it hard to measure. It's will probably be easier to try some of the different factory loads that are available on the internet. Measure the bullet diameter of whichever shoots the best and use bullets that match that when you reload.

The semi-automatics like the Garand was never renowned for it's accuracy, at least in issue form. It's much easier to get one of the bolt actions to shoot. However, the sights on the Garand are exceptional, and that can make up for a lot of other sins when we are talking about practical accuracy. It shouldn't be too hard to get it to shoot 2-3" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. That's very usable.

M1 Carbines (not a Garand) are infamous for their wash bucket sized groups. I'd consider it a plinker or a 100 yard max gun.

Take good care of those! You have some real keepsakes there! I'd shoot them so you can teach the next caretaker how to do it.

I would second that assessment.

Out of the rifles the OP mentioned, the Garand would be my "go-to" gun. Here's the thing about shooting it though: modern factory ammo is particularly unsuited to it. It is generally loaded with slower powders than what the rifle was designed for. Such powder creates a higher pressure pulse far down the barrel where the "gas syphon" is. (Trying to keep it simple for a newbie.) When the gas system is subjected to higher pressure like that, the operating rod can be damaged, causing the gun to stop working. A Garand must be fed ammo loaded with fast-to-medium burning powder. (IMR-4895 is the prime example, and was in fact developed way back early on specifically for M1 Garand use, sort of.) The trick is in finding such ammo today, if one isn't a handloader who can concoct a special diet for his Garand. U.S. military surplus .30 caliber ammo is certainly safe, as well as special runs of factory ammo specifically tailored for M1 use- do your homework via internet research/shopping. Ask questions to be sure.

As for Garand accuracy, they aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer certainly, but are plenty sufficient for hitting stuff out to the other side of the golf fairway. Ask the Germans, Japanese, and North Korean/Chicoms sent to their makers by them 65-80 years ago. Accuracy, as with any rifle, depends on bore condition and bedding. A Garand with a decent bore and "factory" bedding can certainly be depended on to return 2-3MOA easily, often better. If you're anal about it you can "accurize" the gun (if the bore condition warrants it) by epoxy bedding it via protocols established years ago, which can be found all over the internet. Even then, don't expect huge improvements in accuracy just such that'll make you smile a bit when you walk down and look at the target.

M1 Carbine: grab a couple boxes of ammo and blast a few tin cans now and then. IMO it's not what one would call an ideal deer cartridge but it'll do if you have to, in a pinch.

Arisakas: Personally I wouldn't get carried away with them. Ammo isn't particularly rare, but not commonly found either.

Government policy back when the old man served (as it is now) was such that Garands and Carbines didn't go home with guys, period. Weapons that came home with service people invariably were stolen one way or another. But, the gov't sold off a lot of surplus weapons in the couple decades after WWII (and still does to a degree) hence the OP's guns could've (probably) been acquired legitimately way back when. It wouldn't be the first time an old codger mis-remembered/made up/BS'ed his buddies/kinfolk about how he came to be in possession of stuff like that. Doesn't really matter now. Just know that if a GI was caught swiping an M1 70 years ago he would've been given a dishonorable discharge at minimum, and probably some time in the hoosegow to think about it. It just wasn't done except by guys who were stupid/ignorant or lucky daredevils.

As for milsurps in general, IMO Springfields and K-31's are at the top of the heap, but I'm a little prejudiced in that regard! Stunners can be found among all makes, as well as can stinkers be found. You pays yer money and takes yer chances!

Darryle I can help you with the Garand and the Carbine.

Have a bunch of ammo for both that I have loaded as I have 2 Garands, a carbine and 2 03A3s

Proper Garand ammo can be found
Be careful of corrosive---

Its always a good idea to pass the guns on to a relative who is knowledgeable about them. Hopefully he or she won't bubba the guns up and ruin them as the supply of original military guns is limited, even the lowly Arisaka.
There is lots of info on you tube like Forgotten Weapons.
I just inhereted ny cousins WW2 T38 and will keep it original. My daughter has my previously sporterized Type 99 (not by me) and learned iron sight installation and muzzle threading for recoil reducer installation, etc.
I hope you can appreciate what you have and pass them on. Have fun with them! Mel

Thanks HT, I have no plans to shoot them since I had them cleaned up and "preserved". I was hoping one of the other family members would express interest in taking them to eventually pass on to their kids or grandkids, but no one is interested, so I am talking to his VFW buddies on where to donate them.



Thanks for the replies, I am not interested in using either of these, I do wish I had their history and how my uncle "acquired" them, but he was never very becoming with his or their story.

My main goal was to learn what was considered some of the most accurate as issued military rifles regardless of whose military it was.

find a club that shoots High Power and CMP matches, the Garand is perfect for CMP style matches and guys that shoot that stuff usually know a lot about them.

Plus, you may find you love that sport too!

Poole

I guess I don't get why you want to donate them. Many military museums have gazillions of them laying around and can't do a thing with them because they are donated except for maybe deactivate them. Sell them to a collector who wants to take care of them. What ever you do, do not donate them.

kwg

Been scratching my head wondering the same thing. Why donate ??
Put them on the collector's market.It's almost certain that the donatee will not have an appreciation as a collector would.

Those kids and grandkids aren't going to have the slightest interest in those guns unless you and the kids make memories with them. Get those kids out and shoot those relics!

I don't have any children, these are other extended family members

Each month, the range I am a member of holds a match for unaltered Military Bolt Action Rifles, I'm told that the Swiss and the Swedes are always at the top. I suspect their accuracy is due to the quality of workmanship in them that and the fact that there was never any war time production.

Gael, do any of your members compete with the '39 Finn? If so, are they competitive?

The Finns don't make junk rifles....period....

Not Gael, but the problem with the Finn isn't it's inherent accuracy, it's the sights. Anything with an open rear sight is harder to hold elevation with, especially as you get older. Also, they are on the coarse side, compared to a Swede. Peep sights are why the K-31 is so well loved.

Not saying you can't win with a Finn, but you had better be having a good vision day.

Just typing about it makes me miss being a teen, when I could hold 3/4 MOA or less elevation with open sights.

I have a sporterized T-38 with the military barrel shortened to 21" and rechambered to 6.5 Roberts. With 120gr .264 bullets I get 2"-4" groups. With 140 and 144gr .264 bullets I get 1" with my best at .6". I think the twist is 1:7.8" so your Type 38s will like the heavier/longer bullets. Hornady does make a .268" bullet, last I checked, I think it is a 160 RN.

Flintlocke, I imagine some do, but I'm sorry to say I've never attended one of the shoots, eyes just can't see the sights. My information comes from conversations with competitors. I do recall one guy saying some of the Springfields were competitive.

They all have their following and are part of history. Most guys like the Garands and Carbines due to their DNA and cool factor. The Arisaka rifles that still have the "mum" on the receiver are worth more than the ones with the "mums" scratched out. It was a symbol of the Emperor and the Japanese didn't sell any for surplus without destroying the mum, out of respect for their Emperor. If you find one with the mum intact, it was probably a GI bring back, and is more collectible. The Arisakas don't get much respect sometimes, but they are very strong actions, but a bit rough looking compared to many military rifles such as the Mausers.