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The only "small" gun I ever EDCed was a J-frame, and that's no longer within the bounds of what I'll carry. But I won't typically carry any "medium" or "big" revolvers either, for capacity/reloading reasons. All my semiautos are 9mm these days, and I don't go below 3.5" (never have IIRC) on the barrel or a 12 round magazine (had a few single stacks in the past), and it's been a while since I've gone below 4" on the barrel. So all in all I wouldn't say I've changed philosophy, just refined it.

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I'm still rolling with either the P365, G19, or G23. I'm comfortable with any of them and like them....mainly the 365 now. I'm not traveling to cities currently but when I was, and if I had to now, I'd have whichever of those previous models on my right hip and an LCR in left front pocket.

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Shield 9mm is all I can cuff. Keep a spare mag, and a second shield in the truck. I have a MP 2.0 compact 15+1 but it is a good bit heavier, so the shield gets the most belt time. Fire fights with the local Amish have slowed down, so Shield should be enough. City travels would have the MP2.0, but probably not a extra mag.

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Originally Posted by Gooch_McGrundle
Due to stuff like this, I’m carrying larger guns with higher capacity that are more accurate. I’ve found that if shooting with irons, I am most accurate with a hammer-fired pistol such as a Sig P226 or 1911 when distances exceed 20 yards. I can’t seem to get that kind of consistency out of a striker fired gun unless I use a red dot.


May seem like a dumb question and it certainly does not pertain directly to the subject of the thread, but is your preference for hammer-fired pistols due to their being shot single-action, and hence are more accurate due to better triggers? Or is there something inherent in hammer-fired weapons that makes them more conducive to accurate shooting for you? Reason I'm asking, I'm considering a Security 9 which is hammer fired, but not single action.


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Started carrying a S&W 3913 9mm single stack pistol in 1995, transitioned to a Sig P225 single stack 9mm and later to a Kahr K40 single stack 40mm pistol sometime around the mid 2000's. Also have carried a S&W 642 J-frame in my front pants pocket or jacket pocket for years. I became enamored over having a small pistol and had LW Seecamp build me a .32 auto and shortly after that arrived Ruger came out with the LCP .380 so of course I had to have that. I have not carried the .32 or .380 in years.

Last year I decided I needed to have a higher capacity pistol available for times when I may be somewhere that multiple assailants may be a threat. Not sure where that might be but being prepared was something I felt I needed to do. I purchased a CZ 75D PCR 9mm that has 15 round capacity. The reason for the CZ was it was the only high capacity 9mm that seemed to fit my hand well. I now carry it whenever I can conceal that much gun.

I also have a 1911 45 auto, .357 and .44 mag revolvers but they are seldom taken out of the house.

So, I guess I have also evolved from thinking 5 to 7 rounds would be more than enough to solve any problem I may encounter to thinking I need more rounds in a large more shootable firearm.

Who knows what is next.

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Almost wandered off the Glock reservation a while back and really considered getting the Ruger Baby 9. Just so much easier. Then the carjacking crap, and the black gangs talking about busting up on white folk, then the antifa........Changed my direction. It's not slick as a Kimber but I've carried and shot my pre-Gen model 23 since the early 1990s. As others have said you have an extra mag onboard. For everyday I generally don't carry an extra mag but have one or two 15 rounders in my console. So my concept of an EDC hasn't changed. It has however changed items. Now for some times, doing church security for example when we actually had church, I went to a G17 and an extra mag. So my daily is now either a G23 or G17 with between 0 and 2 extra mags. As someone else mentioned I really shoot single action hammer guns better than striker fired. So now after I get a couple of hundred rounds out of it, I may go to an old school but immaculate alloy frame 5903 S&W I bought over a year ago and just had too much else going on to get accustomed enough to it to carry. Adjustable rear sight with ears and all. Cool 9mm.

So anyway my EDC concept has been expanded but to all similar sized guns. I'd much rather do that and work around the concealment issue than go to a smaller pistol with less capacity. As I mulled over this one day it occurred to me no one I'm aware of who actually had to participate in a shoot out has said anything to the effect, "Wow, wish I'd brought a smaller gun".


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I had been considering moving to a full-sized pistol for EDC, but then I got a Sig 365. I may not be able to shoot it quite as well as I can some bigger pistols, gut I can shoot it well enough. It will only get better as I have more time to work with it. I frequently carry in situations where I have to keep it really concealed. I have been amazed at how well I can conceal this IWB in warm weather clothing. I was also amazed the first time I took it to the range. I really exceeded my expectations by a significant margin.


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That 365, in particular the 365 XL, was the philosophical game changer for me. I'd like to carry a compact sized pistol but have yet to get comfortable with them. The Sig is not a little gun but it's definitely smaller and more concealable than the Compacts - the 15 round pistols with 4" barrels exemplified by the Glock 19, M&P Compact, Sig X-Carry, etc.

It's definitely the smallest pistol I've owned that's still completely shootable. It's not as comfortable to shoot as the compacts but hits on target are what matter and that 365 in either configuration lets me hit as well as a larger piece. Here are two pics originally posted a few weeks ago showing semi-rapid fire from a standard 365 with 3" barrel and a Glock 19, both at 7 yards. I threw a few more shots with the Sig than the larger Glock but both of those groups are around 2 1/2 to 3", every round in both groups would have been good COM hits.

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]



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It would be interesting to see that comparison at 15 & 25 yards.

The 365 XL is a decent sized gun with a longer barrel than the standard 365 & a corresponding increase in sight radius.

It would also be interesting to see the same comparison between the 2 different sized 365's.

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No change for the main carry gun here...have been carrying a Colt Commander in .38 Super daily since 1980 and a standard GM .45 before that for 4 years. If I wanted to carry a "modern" gun it would be a G19. About the same size and weight but with a few more rounds... The last ten years I did LE work and the five years after when I did PI work, I carried a S&W 6906...again about the same size and weight as the other two...

Just have always believed in carrying a gun that would take care of 99% of the situations which I saw while in LE and read about in books and magazines.

One thing that changed about 10 years ago was starting to carry a backup gun. While I always carried one while in LE (when authorized) never carried one off-duty. After testing everything from NAA Mini-Revolvers to snubbies settled on a Kahr P380. Fits my hand well, great trigger pull, excellent sights, locked breech design and sits flat in a pocket... And when that is even too big a KelTec P32 can be hidden almsot anywhere...

I prefer to learn from the mistakes and successes of others...

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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
That 365, in particular the 365 XL, was the philosophical game changer for me.


The 365 XL is intriguing. It is the only gun that has me considering up-sizing from the 365. Loaded with 12, mine weighs 25.7 ounces. According to Glock's website, the Glock 26 Gen 5 weighs 26.07 ounces loaded. The Glock has a shorter barrel, less capacity, and a shorter grip, and is thicker. The XL is optic ready. I have held out on buying a good IWB holster for the XL until a good micro RDS is available. (The Holosun 507K looks promising, but delivery times are affected by the pandemic and I would rather buy American.) I suspect that I will change when I get a reliable micro RDS on the XL.

Originally Posted by MontanaMan
It would be interesting to see that comparison at 15 & 25 yards.

The 365 XL is a decent sized gun with a longer barrel than the standard 365 & a corresponding increase in sight radius.

It would also be interesting to see the same comparison between the 2 different sized 365's.

MM


That comparison is on my to-do list. I have to use an indoor range during the winter, which limits me to 50 feet. (It is closed now due to the pandemic.) To me, the accuracy seems close enough to not make a difference at 50 feet. (I think that some of it may be the result of Sig using different triggers on the two models, which can be confusing when switching from one to the other.) The biggest difference that I find is the recovery time between shots, which is longer with the smaller gun.


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Active shooters have definitely changed the landscape for non-LE concealed carriers, especially if you ever enter a big-box store or church with family members. I grew up shooting at fairly long ranges, and I train routinely at 50 and 100 yards with my carry gun.

I’ve tried lots of guns over the last 40-odd years, starting with DA revolvers. From a pure accuracy standpoint, I value a crisp trigger and good sights matter more than anything else. But I also want to balance slow-fire accuracy with concealment, speed from the holster, ease of getting good hits quickly on multiple targets out to about 15 yards, and ease of reloading quickly with a large-capacity magazine.

I don’t shoot J-frames well at speed unless I add grips that make them almost as big as a K-frame. You can also time reloads with a sundial, so they’re out. I do shoot the G26 and G43 well, but their short grips mean that the magazine hangs up on my firing hand about half the time so I plan to strip the mag from the gun on every reload, which again slows things down. That forces a change in tactics that I don’t much like, so they’re out, too.

I’m pretty much settled on a Glock 19 for everything. It’s not hard to conceal, plus I can shoot it and manipulate it as well as I can larger pistols. Beyond that, I've gotten good training and I pay a lot of attention to being able to articulate very clearly why I chose to fire a shot much beyond handshaking distance.


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Originally Posted by RJM
No change for the main carry gun here...have been carrying a Colt Commander in .38 Super daily since 1980 and a standard GM .45 before that for 4 years. If I wanted to carry a "modern" gun it would be a G19. About the same size and weight but with a few more rounds... The last ten years I did LE work and the five years after when I did PI work, I carried a S&W 6906...again about the same size and weight as the other two...

Just have always believed in carrying a gun that would take care of 99% of the situations which I saw while in LE and read about in books and magazines.

One thing that changed about 10 years ago was starting to carry a backup gun. While I always carried one while in LE (when authorized) never carried one off-duty. After testing everything from NAA Mini-Revolvers to snubbies settled on a Kahr P380. Fits my hand well, great trigger pull, excellent sights, locked breech design and sits flat in a pocket... And when that is even too big a KelTec P32 can be hidden almsot anywhere...

I prefer to learn from the mistakes and successes of others...

Bob


Nice, will the little P380 handle those Lehigh drill bits?


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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
It would be interesting to see that comparison at 15 & 25 yards.

The 365 XL is a decent sized gun with a longer barrel than the standard 365 & a corresponding increase in sight radius.

It would also be interesting to see the same comparison between the 2 different sized 365's.

MM

Don't have exactly that comparison but hopefully this is close enough. I haven't really shot the P365 out to 25 yards, I may have done so once or twice but don't have those targets. I do take the Compact pistols out to 25 but again don't have a full range of comparison targets. Will show what I have and discuss afterwards.

1. P365XL using Speer 124 GDHP, standing aimed fire at 15 yards. The holes in the middle were at 7 yards, the 5 at 12 and 2:00 in the 9 ring were fired at 15 yards.

[Linked Image]


2. P365 "XX" - XL slide on a 365 grip frame, this is what I carry now. 10 shots standing aimed fire at 15 yards, S&B 124 FMJ.

[Linked Image]


3. Glock 19, 10 rounds standing aimed fire at 15 yards. I think these would be S&B 115 FMJ but I forgot to write that down.

[Linked Image]


4. Not a G19 but a same size pistol. Sig P320 X-Compact, or rather another of my hybrids with an X-Compact grip and a 3.9" Carry slide/barrel assembly since the standard X-Compact barrel is only 3.6", shorter even than the 365 XL. Two groups with Speer 124 GDHP and S&B 124 FMJ over sandbags at 25 yards. This was to check sight settings, I have since moved the sights to get the groups to center.

Using a G34, P320 full size or M&P 2.0 full size 5" I can generally get 3-4" groups standing aimed fire at 25 yards.

[Linked Image]


Looking at 1, 2 and 3, at 15 yards the 365XL and Glock 19 are about the same for me. Looks like a few more flyers with the 365 but the overall group sizes are very similar. Also, except for that one flyer with the Speer 124 GDHP you can see it groups much better than the S&B. It sure cuts prettier holes.

On #4, at 25 yards that whole group is about 3" although most of the holes are in 1 1/2". But let's be honest and include the flyers so it's a 3" group. I mostly shoot the compacts and full size pistols at 25 yards just to verify their zero at that range.

I have read either here or somewhere that in a shooting you are, at best, only half as good as you are on your worst day at the range. Given that, I'd certainly take a COM shot with the 365 or Glock out to 25 yards. I might try a head shot at 15 yard with any of them, 365, Glock or anything else if circumstances warrant it but unless I was calm as ice and had time to aim I wouldn't absolutely count on a first round hit.

As is said, you get the fight you get, not the one you want. These targets highlight the desirability of always going for a COM shot no matter what the range, and only trying to hit a small moving target like a head if that's the only shot you have.

They also show the desirability of knowing exactly where your pistol hits at various yardages. Looking at the 365 groups in #1, POI coincides with POA at 7 yards but is 2" high at 15, it gets about 4-5" high at 25. POA in this case is to set the top of the front sight dead in the middle of the X. . The G19 with the same sight picture shoots under the dot on the front sight or pretty much right at the top of the sight. I've been using the top of the front sight as my sight picture for some 55 years now so that's where I'll keep my sight picture.


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Shooting our CC matches exposed a lot of faults in both carry pistols and carry methods.

While I still carry a J frame once in awhile, I'd rather throw it at someone than try to do a reload under fire.

Increase distance and the smaller pistols don't work as well as a full size pistol, it's just a fact.

Select what you shoot the best while still being able to conceal it and get out and train. Draws and reloads are just as important as shooting yet most neglect practice.

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That's what is loaded in it...


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Guys, don't get too wrapped up in slow fire accuracy for a carry gun. Yes, you need to be able to hit at distance, but if you need it, chances are you're going to have to do it fast; none of this slow "align the sights, focus on the front sight with a big white target, gently squeeze the trigger" kind of stuff; that's not likely to happen in any fight other than in the movies. The ability to make those same hits quickly and repeatedly is what matters, and that's where the little guns like the 365 and G43 (I still consider them in the same category for this point, regardless of capacity) fall behind.

There are guys who can't hit anything at 10 yards because they don't practice, and other guys who practice all the time and focus on slow fire at 10-15-25 yards or more. Neither are the right mindset for training yourself with a carry gun.

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I am going to stick with the G31/17 platforms and perhaps the G27 on occasion. KISS.

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Originally Posted by RJM
That's what is loaded in it...


Great! that's even better.


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Originally Posted by Yondering
Guys, don't get too wrapped up in slow fire accuracy for a carry gun. Yes, you need to be able to hit at distance, but if you need it, chances are you're going to have to do it fast; none of this slow "align the sights, focus on the front sight with a big white target, gently squeeze the trigger" kind of stuff; that's not likely to happen in any fight other than in the movies. The ability to make those same hits quickly and repeatedly is what matters, and that's where the little guns like the 365 and G43 (I still consider them in the same category for this point, regardless of capacity) fall behind.

There are guys who can't hit anything at 10 yards because they don't practice, and other guys who practice all the time and focus on slow fire at 10-15-25 yards or more. Neither are the right mindset for training yourself with a carry gun.


There's a lot of truth in this.

And in the real world you might have to mix and match, such as firing a fast string at 5 yards, followed up with a head shot at 15 or 20 yards. How many practice that kind of a transition?


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