24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,277
K
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,277
Loading some Nosler 243 70gr fb tipped and Speer 70gr TNT HP. Using Wilson seating die and s Sinclair arbor press , make sure primers are fully seated .
Why is my COA L jumping all over the place ?
Checked seating stem for debris, measure from bottom of cartridge to ogive using Sinclair hex .
Don't have this problem with other bullets , Sierra game kings from 85 gr up , Nosler 100gr , or Barnes 80gr . Stem looks to be plenty deep that tip would not bottom out .
There is as n ogive variation is as much as .005 in both bullets , but this should only vary how much the bullet is setting in the case and not OAL when measuring off the ogive, correct ?
Thanks , Kenneth

Last edited by Kenneth66; 04/05/20.
HR IC

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,715
1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
1
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,715
Not all bullets are thexact same length so you will see a small variation.


The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,988
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,988
Could it be your bullets are sticking in the seating stem? If that is the case you may need to polish it or recontour slightly.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,321
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,321
First let me say I feel your frustration, been there don that and moved on.
When, loading for target/accuracy I, measure and weigh each bullet and batch them by length and weight. Doing so reduces COAL variations.
When, loading for hunting as long as accuracy is with in my standards I do not worry about the variations so much.(+/- .005) no biggie for hunting accuracy.
Unless you are shooting chipmunks at 300+
Ever measure COAL of factory ammo I have seen +/- .020 in a box of 20 still shot accurate enough for hunting.


There is a war on America and America is losing
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,053
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,053
How much variation are you seeing in your COAL when you measure your cartridges to the ogive for this bullet? Guessing it’s got something to do with the seater.

Last edited by Hawkeye_Reloader; 04/05/20.
IC B2

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,450
C
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,450
If I understand your question correctly, a variation of .005 in bullet ogive, will give you that variation in OAL when measured from a seated bullets ogive.
If your rifle is sensitive to seating depth, it could effect group size. Depending on what your doing with the load, that could or could not matter.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,730
F
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,730
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
How much variation are you seeing in your COAL when you measure your cartridges to the ogive for this bullet? Guessing it’s got something to do with the seater.


I used to see quite a bit of COAL variation in my loaded rounds, particularly with c+c bullets with exposed lead tips, but even sometimes with plastic-tipped bullets. When I started measuring BTO, however, I noticed that they were nearly all dead-nuts on-the-money.

Just my experience.

FC


"Every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet."

- Mrs. FC
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 445
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 445
For those with way more reloading/ machining experience than me- how likely is it for this issue to be caused by the inaccuracy of a $30 set of calipers versus an actual issue with the equipment? I've heard that most budget calipers are actually surprisingly good these days.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
A short while back I posted a thread about a batch of Sierra Match King bullets varying by .030" base to ogive. I would suspect the bullets before the calipers.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,450
C
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,450
I`ve a box of ELD-M now that vary by 8-10 thous. now. Run on different equipment I would think. I`m going to go through the box, see if I can sort them.

IC B3

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,725
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,725
Ogives seem to do a great deal of wandering around within a box of bullets. I suppose they get bored and are looking for a little exercise.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)

Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,053
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,053
Originally Posted by 5sdad
Ogives seem to do a great deal of wandering around within a box of bullets. I suppose they get bored and are looking for a little exercise.


That made me laugh 😆 😭

Might not hurt to check the calipers? I’ve seen some do some funky things in my line of work. Otherwise I’m thinking that if you use something like a Hornady LnL comparator, measure base to ogive, any significant variation should come from the seating operation?

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,277
K
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,277
The calipers are Brown&Sharpe , they are supposed to be quality calipers , but have had them for some time . When closing them all the way they return to 0 .
It is Wichester brass , on about the 6th or 7th loading . Not showing any signs of neck splits and trimming is seldom needed as long as I deburr each time .
This coming weekend I will try some new brass and see what happens . 5 shot groups are running with four shots into .3"-,4" with a single flier opening up the group to .7"-,8" .
My nephew has a Ruger precision in 6.5 and it flat out shoots . Trying to develop a load that will give him a run for his money .
I am guessing these OAL variances is were my fliers are coming from . Sometimes the variation is a couple thousandth and sometimes a couple hundredths.
I thought the seating stem seated off the ogive , but I am getting rings high above the ogive .
That's another thing , I hadn't noticed these rings before , bullets have started seating hard , maybe the new brass is the answer .
Kenneth

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Sounds like it's time to anneal. That's a whole other fun thread with lots of opinions.


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,071
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,071
I would think for this to happen something in the press or the seating die has to be moving around, has to be! If the die is locked in and there's no slop in the press, it would be pretty much impossible for the length to be changing. But, if all your measuring is the bullet, bullet's can vary in length some, at least that's what I've read over the years. But even so the length in the die from the base of the shell holder, when every thing is locked down cannot change unless there is movement in the press or the die. I know that I don't measure to ogive, just something else to concern myself with. I measure to the bullet tip and use the same case and bullet over and over till I get the die set where I want it. After that, doesn't matter to me what the length to the tip is as I suspect it will keep changing but the length to the ogive can't, it's locked in. Even if the ogive move's on the bullet, the die still set's the ogive of the bullet in the same place every time assuming there is no play in the press or the die.

I think people go out and buy tools to measure things like this for measurement's that really aren't that important then go nut's when they find out they have been making less than perfect ammo for years and settled for it simply because it shot very well. So, how does the ammo your getting shoot or haven't you tried it because of this little discrepancy?

Last edited by DonFischer; 04/06/20.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,049
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,049

Originally Posted by NVhntr
A short while back I posted a thread about a batch of Sierra Match King bullets varying by .030" base to ogive. I would suspect the bullets before the calipers.


I would agree with this.

Step one would be to measure and sort a bunch of bullets with something like a Sinclair Nut. Have all bullet base to ogive measurements equal or within 0.001 of each other. Then do your normal bullet seating measurement operation. If, after seating, the COALs are consistent you know it's the bullets, if not, it's something to do with your seating operation. I really don't think it has anything to do with the brass.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,394
7
79S Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
7
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,394
That’s why I measure BTO (base to ogive) all your frustrations will end..


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,727
B
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,727
Originally Posted by 79S
That’s why I measure BTO (base to ogive) all your frustrations will end..


A lot of unnecessary frustrations going on here. I measure from the base to the tip and get an average, then set my die and say fu ck the rest, as long as they function and are accurate who really gives a fu ck..>? ?? A lot of you guys try to complicate the schidt out of this reloading stuff, when it is pretty damn easy in fact.. I'm just wondering why so many guys are being so damn anal about their loads when I still haven't seen any of them participate in the moa all day long challenge here? You anal sob's prove to me that your OCD is doing any good.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That way I don't have to keep laughing every time I see a thread like this... Specialty tools, specialty dies, special brass with tiny flash holes and most of you aren't even bench rest competitors...

Post up the results of your anal handloading process. The proof is on paper, meaning a target. Coal is what you burn too by the way. I've never seen coal jump around in the wood stove...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,394
7
79S Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
7
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,394
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 79S
That’s why I measure BTO (base to ogive) all your frustrations will end..


A lot of unnecessary frustrations going on here. I measure from the base to the tip and get an average, then set my die and say fu ck the rest, as long as they function and are accurate who really gives a fu ck..>? ?? A lot of you guys try to complicate the schidt out of this reloading stuff, when it is pretty damn easy in fact.. I'm just wondering why so many guys are being so damn anal about their loads when I still haven't seen any of them participate in the moa all day long challenge here? You anal sob's prove to me that your OCD is doing any good.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That way I don't have to keep laughing every time I see a thread like this... Specialty tools, specialty dies, special brass with tiny flash holes and most of you aren't even bench rest competitors...

Post up the results of your anal handloading process. The proof is on paper, meaning a target. Coal is what you burn too by the way. I've never seen coal jump around in the wood stove...


Just because Katie brown said stay inside doesn’t mean to stay inside. Go outside get some fresh air buddy..


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,664
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,664
Most likely not all bullets are created equal.


1Minute

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
333 members (007FJ, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 160user, 12344mag, 32 invisible), 2,114 guests, and 927 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,729
Posts18,400,838
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.085s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8897 MB (Peak: 1.0280 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 11:19:39 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS