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Hook, you should see the pile that goes back in the pot ! Thanks nonetheless.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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DD, I guess I just have to settle for the uglier sister. Despite culling and other efforts, my bullets just don't look 'lathe turned' like yours do. However, like many of the uglier sisters, once you turn out the lights, the results can be notable...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That 45-70 load has been an eye-opener. I was looking for a light pllnking load for my Marlin and decided to try Unique. My old Pacific pistol powder dropper produced a 12.4 grain load without a bushing in it. Even though that was a lighter load than I was looking for, the ease of charging the cases with it made me try. It gives a 1075fps velocity out of the 22" Marlin barrel and produces FINE accuracy. Here is another group fired Saturday while fine tuning the zero on the Weaver 2.5X scope. One inch high at 100 yds should get me all the practical use I can get with this load. You can shoot this load all day long with no danger of developing a flinch.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Hook; 04/06/20.
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Quote from yonderling
Just the powder residue. And if we're talking about the bore (not the action) it's the same amount of powder residue after 5 shots, or 100, or 1,000. I've never seen any coating residue in the bore, in anything from 700 fps pistol loads to 3,000+ fps rifle loads.
Some of my barrels only get used with powder coated bullets any more - I never clean them. Not because it's bad to clean them, but because it's just unnecessary. I do wipe off powder residue from the exterior, but that's it.


Controlling the temperature in your baking oven is important, and an oven thermometer is only a few dollars. Some guys are baking way too hot and trying to just pull the bullets out before they slump, but that's not what the powder coating needs for a good cure. The coatings I use are pretty specific about needing 400° F part temperature for 10 minutes; to me that means ~20 minutes total time in the oven, with the first 10 minutes to get the bullets up to 400°. [/quote]

I clean out of habit from shooting jacketed. But after all last season shooting matches, I bore scoped my barrel and was amazed at how clean the barrel was. No carbon buildup between the lands, hell, the leade still had the same minor radial marks left from the reamer after I lapped it in. These minimal marks I expect to be gone after 5-10 shots...still there!

Last edited by WayneShaw; 04/06/20.
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You’re doing fine Hook!


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Best thread on powder coating, that I have read. I want to shoot cast in 2 AR rifles, and this is the ticket!!


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You no good so-and-so's! I just ordered some RAL 6018 from PBTP, going to do my first coating attempt for some sub 300 BO cats bullets from GT. Down the rabbit trial I go, and it's your guy's fault....

Thanks for the info.


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Originally Posted by bowfisher
You no good so-and-so's! I just ordered some RAL 6018 from PBTP, going to do my first coating attempt for some sub 300 BO cats bullets from GT. Down the rabbit trial I go, and it's your guy's fault....

Thanks for the info.


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I will be buying some 225 Grain lead .452 Lead semi wadcutter Hollow point Bullets with a Brinell Hardness of 6-8 for use in An EMF Pietta GWII single action revolver. with velocity of approximately 1000 FPS
I will be Shooting maybe 500-750 rounds per year, if I shoot that much .I do not want to size the bullets

Given the information I just gave would Powder Coating Bullets be better than just using alox for my set of circumstances ?
Or hand lubing ?

I would prefer to lube inside the house,can this be done safely inside the house ?
We also have 4 Cats in the house.


Thanks


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Good information Yondering. One question, does the baking step effect the bullet hardness ? I cast for a 45/70 and my bullets are used for hunting. NormallyI water quench right out of the mold. Am I wasting my time if I PC ?

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Good question yukon. Yes, baking does affect the hardness - it will negate the affects of any quenching out of the mold. The solution is easy though: if you want to quench for hardness, do it after baking. The bullets are hot at that point, like when they come out of the mold, and can be quenched for hardness. Just pour cold water over the pan of hot bullets; I usually use a full juice pitcher of water on each pan of bullets.

Important! Don't try to dump the hot baked bullets into water; you'll tear the coating, pour water on the bullets instead.Once the coating has cooled, it takes a set and remains hard at high temperatures (it is what's called a "thermoset plastic", meaning it doesn't melt once cured), but right after that initial baking when it's still hot, it's soft and easily damaged.

I suggest skipping the water quench out of the mold (it doesn't hurt anything, but doesn't help either) and just quench after baking. This has worked well for me for use in high pressure handgun and rifle loads.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by Yondering; 04/27/20.
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Thanks, thats a great idea. I like it when a process can be streamlined. I just ordered a new mold for my 45/70 from NOE. They didnt have a Ranch Dog 405 so I got the 350. Hopefully I can get them to shoot.

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Originally Posted by yukon254
Good information Yondering. One question, does the baking step effect the bullet hardness ? I cast for a 45/70 and my bullets are used for hunting. NormallyI water quench right out of the mold. Am I wasting my time if I PC ?


Here you go, Yukon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fb...ecL1Yx3zgJCUDhzXRqp-uJwtNpMN5pjhQRM2arjM

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Originally Posted by Hook
Originally Posted by yukon254
Good information Yondering. One question, does the baking step effect the bullet hardness ? I cast for a 45/70 and my bullets are used for hunting. NormallyI water quench right out of the mold. Am I wasting my time if I PC ?


Here you go, Yukon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fb...ecL1Yx3zgJCUDhzXRqp-uJwtNpMN5pjhQRM2arjM



Hook, I'm not picking on you, but 2 things stand out right away in that video:

1 - it's a lot harder to get a good coating on just a few bullets like he did, than doing several hundred at once.
2 - Don't dump hot baked bullets into water, it will tear/damage the coating. Dump water on the bullets instead.

We live in an age where pretty much anybody can pretend to be an expert on YouTube, and few people test things for themselves to find out if they're following good advice or not.

The video did have good data on the hardness, so there's that. Beware of conclusions drawn from small differences though; the results can change with different alloys, different bullets, and more samples.

Edit - sorry, I'm a test and development engineer, so this stuff may bother me more than the rest of you guys. To me it's the equivalent of watching a movie where the good guy shoots 15 times without reloading his revolver.

Last edited by Yondering; 04/30/20.
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From my experience and results I have no issues doing small lots of bullets at one time in fact I never do more than 50 to 100 bullets at a time and in some instance I only do 25 at a time if I'm testing a new powder. I also water quench some bullets right out of the toaster oven if I need to increase the hardness and I have seen no ill affects on the coating.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/nfB1r7c.jpg?1[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/j05d4HB.jpg?1[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/TtYlOVP.jpg?2[/img]

Last edited by res45; 05/01/20.

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Yondering, I understand the shortcomings of that very simplified test. But, it does give an idea of the question in hand. Personally, I was not too interested in the process because I ultimately want to use my PC'ed bullets for hunting and want them soft enough to expand reliably. I'm still playing with developing a good alloy for that purpose. No water quenching for me! So far, the unquenched bullets have shot very well indeed.

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Originally Posted by Hook
Yondering, I understand the shortcomings of that very simplified test. But, it does give an idea of the question in hand. Personally, I was not too interested in the process because I ultimately want to use my PC'ed bullets for hunting and want them soft enough to expand reliably. I'm still playing with developing a good alloy for that purpose. No water quenching for me! So far, the unquenched bullets have shot very well indeed.



I may be able to help you with that, since I have spent a lot of time studying and experimenting how to achieve the same goal. What bullet are you using, and what is the meplat diameter, and what velocity? Also to start with, what alloy are you using right now?

Reliable expansion with either hollow point or flat point bullets is fairly easy to obtain with cast bullets, if you balance alloy, meplat diameter vs bullet size/shape, and velocity.

Last edited by Yondering; 05/02/20.
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Well, the alloy is the problem. I have a large amount of lead, but none of it is known content. I acquired a lot of lead pipe fittings, elbows and straight connections for 1" or so pipe, that I thought was pure. I read the other day that the fittings sometimes contain up to 10% tin!! I had been using it to mix with unknown ingots acquired from an estate that likely are wheel weights. I also recently got a stash of what is supposed to be monotype. My first efforts were to try to develop softer alloy that would expand at about 1800 fps +/- .

After groping around in the dark for a month or so, I jumped on an older Saeco lead tester someone offered online. It is 20-25 years old but pretty much unused for the last 20 years or so according to the seller. The hardness of the bullets I've been casting lately run around 8 on the tester which equates to about 15 BHN. The molds I have are the 180 gr RCBS FP and the 170 gr Lee FP, both chosen because of their flat points. The RCBS makes great shooting bullets that end up at 186 gr GC'ed and PC'ed. The Lee bullets just aren't up to the quality of the RCBS no matter how hard I've tried to get them right. The RCBS bullets usually shoot to about 1.5-2.0" at the low velocities I've started with, and quite often will go below MOA. I am using them in 308, 30-40, and 30.06. Will heat them up when I get all the kinks worked out of my alloy.

The 45-70 mold is the Lee 405 gr FP and it makes accurate bullets that have shot some sub MOA groups out of my 1895. Not worried about alloy in it though because the 45 cal bullet doesn't really need to expand.

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Hook, from your description of the alloy, it sounds like there's a strong chance the spring in that Saeco tester might have weakened. Best to calibrate it against known pure lead (or close to it) for reference. Foster-style shotgun slugs and muzzle loader balls are convenient sources if you have them. 15 BHN sounds suspicious for a low-antimony alloy like your pipe fittings and wheel weight mix.

I don't know the meplat diameter of those bullets though?

Last edited by Yondering; 05/04/20.
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As near as I can tell, the Lee's meplat is about 0.165" and the RCBS is about 0.190".

I think you may be right about the spring in my Saeco. Scrounged a few commercial cast bullets and tested them....they all tested at about 15 BHN. I have an email in to Redding to see if the current unit's parts are compatible with my unit and whether I can buy a new spring.

While looking through my stash, I found about 8-10 lbs of nice, BIG 45 cal slugs marked as being cast of 1:25 alloy. Heaven knows where I got these things, but it must have been back when I was dabbling around with BPCR rifles. I no longer have anything I can shoot these in, so am considering turning them into 180 gr, 30 caliber bullets. The question is, at what point is an alloy too soft to be driven at ~1800 fps when GC'ed and PC'ed?

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Originally Posted by Hook
The question is, at what point is an alloy too soft to be driven at ~1800 fps when GC'ed and PC'ed?



In my experience, 25:1 is definitely at that point. It probably won't lead, but is likely to not shoot very accurately either at that speed. That depends a lot on the design as well though. It's also a lot softer than you need for good expansion, in my experience.

For what you described, at 1800-2000 fps with those bullets, straight clip-on WW alloy will give plenty of expansion. I would not go any softer than that for those speeds (such as mixing stick-on WW or pipe fittings with that alloy). If you think you've got an alloy that's considerably softer, like the pipe fitting & WW mix you described, you can buy a pound of antimony on Amazon and mix it into your lead alloy. 1 lb of antimony with 50 lb of soft lead will get you to about ~2%, which is just about right. You might want to reduce the amount of antimony you add, depending how much WW was in the mix; maybe 3/4 lb for that 50 lb of alloy.

FWIW mixing in antimony is not nearly as difficult as some claim. I start with ~15 lb of alloy in my 20 lb pot, add the antimony, and run it up to about 800° F. It takes a little while and lots of mixing, but does eventually mix in. For some reason, adding a lump of old bullet lube or candle wax helped it mix better than other fluxing methods I normally use; not sure the reason for that but there it is.

Last edited by Yondering; 05/08/20.
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