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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Have fun with your dogs however you chose.  Best advice on here. Yep. Here's another great quote from Major Charles Askins, the father of the more widely-known Colonel Charles Askins. They were both gun writers, but apparently the major was a much gentler and less ambitious guy than his son, though Askins Sr. was heavily involved in top-notch bird-dog training for some years. This is from Askins Sr.'s GAME BIRD SHOOTING, published in 1931: “My dogs are now about the least trained bird dogs that ever went afield. I let them do what pleases them best, they do best what they know they how, and we have a grand time together; but it is a scandalous handling in the eyes of a stranger.” First read that at least a dozen years ago, when I was just getting to be old enough to fully appreciate it. I think the meaning there is different from the interpretation. I could be wrong, but we'll never know. Universally there were a lot more Birds in 1931 than today.....opportunities were much more common and for the most part easier. Back then, both the Dog and hunter could have their fun and most times end the day content.... For most today, Bird contacts come with more effort on both Dog and hunter....Subsequently team work becomes more of a factor....
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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“My dogs are now about the least trained bird dogs that ever went afield. I let them do what pleases them best, they do best what they know they how, and we have a grand time together; but it is a scandalous handling in the eyes of a stranger.”
First read that at least a dozen years ago, when I was just getting to be old enough to fully appreciate it. That is a philosophy a trainer buddy of mine coined - FDA or "Follow Dog's Azz." It was merely turn the dog loose and let instinct and birds do the training. It looks wild and disorganized but it has its own structure that is readily apparent if one takes off the blinders. If one has the number of wild birds it takes to train this way, there is no better method. It is one reason so many dog trainers operated out of the northern prairie states as there were many wild birds to train on and they could be run through the summer. My best dogs came from the hey days of the late 1980s to the early 2000s when wild birds were common locally as well as in many other states I traveled to. When one can get a dozen wild bird contacts 3+ times a week for years, a dog gains an awful lot of experience handling birds. A move, changes in habitat, different life circumstances, new interpretation of laws, and decreased bird populations made such training less available to me. Planted birds and various tools are needed to simulate wild birds but it is not the same. One can get an approximation but it still takes numbers of wild birds to finish a dog.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
A variety of answers....and exactly as expected. However, a Dog that does what it feels like isn’t on the team. There is a trilogy of Bird, Dog and gun....a field Dog....unlike a trial Dog....can make a lot of mistakes and still be one to brag on....however unless they figure out their place in the game....as a hunter they leave much to be desired. Unless they learn to hunt for the gun they will rarely get to touch the prize.
It normally takes a lot of Birds for it to register.... Agree
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,807
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,807 |
“My dogs are now about the least trained bird dogs that ever went afield. I let them do what pleases them best, they do best what they know they how, and we have a grand time together; but it is a scandalous handling in the eyes of a stranger.”
First read that at least a dozen years ago, when I was just getting to be old enough to fully appreciate it. That is a philosophy a trainer buddy of mine coined - FDA or "Follow Dog's Azz." It was merely turn the dog loose and let instinct and birds do the training. It looks wild and disorganized but it has its own structure that is readily apparent if one takes off the blinders. If one has the number of wild birds it takes to train this way, there is no better method. It is one reason so many dog trainers operated out of the northern prairie states as there were many wild birds to train on and they could be run through the summer. My best dogs came from the hey days of the late 1980s to the early 2000s when wild birds were common locally as well as in many other states I traveled to. When one can get a dozen wild bird contacts 3+ times a week for years, a dog gains an awful lot of experience handling birds. A move, changes in habitat, different life circumstances, new interpretation of laws, and decreased bird populations made such training less available to me. Planted birds and various tools are needed to simulate wild birds but it is not the same. One can get an approximation but it still takes numbers of wild birds to finish a dog. Best Springer I ever had essentially trained himself this way....At the time it wasn't rare to flush 20 to 30 Ruffed Grouse every day you went out.....Lot of frustration at first because he was hot blooded, I knew little about training, but the Birds were there....When it all clicked and he figured out my role it couldn't get any better.....The next Dog that came, followed Duffy around from day one, and he trained Sam for the most part.
Last edited by battue; 04/09/20.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
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“My dogs are now about the least trained bird dogs that ever went afield. I let them do what pleases them best, they do best what they know they how, and we have a grand time together; but it is a scandalous handling in the eyes of a stranger.”
First read that at least a dozen years ago, when I was just getting to be old enough to fully appreciate it. That is a philosophy a trainer buddy of mine coined - FDA or "Follow Dog's Azz." It was merely turn the dog loose and let instinct and birds do the training. It looks wild and disorganized but it has its own structure that is readily apparent if one takes off the blinders. If one has the number of wild birds it takes to train this way, there is no better method. It is one reason so many dog trainers operated out of the northern prairie states as there were many wild birds to train on and they could be run through the summer. My best dogs came from the hey days of the late 1980s to the early 2000s when wild birds were common locally as well as in many other states I traveled to. When one can get a dozen wild bird contacts 3+ times a week for years, a dog gains an awful lot of experience handling birds. A move, changes in habitat, different life circumstances, new interpretation of laws, and decreased bird populations made such training less available to me. Planted birds and various tools are needed to simulate wild birds but it is not the same. One can get an approximation but it still takes numbers of wild birds to finish a dog. Absolutely and my point on my comment about it. The best trained dogs have seen thousands of birds. We don't train dogs to hunt, that is built into their DNA. We train them to Hunt (with) for us. Once the dog has the birds figured out, all we have to do is get the dog to work with us.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,072
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,072 |
Absolutely correct.As many contacts as possible on WILD BIRDS as possible at a young age.There's no substitute.Ive hunted with my share of guys over the years that hunt trial dogs for wild pheasants in Montana and Dakotas. They look beautiful pointing while the roosters all ready took off and is running a 100 yards away . My dog, who had many wild bird contacts, learned to run in a wide loop about 100 yards ahead of scent encounter using the wind to cut off a running rooster. Then you have thick ice encrusted cattail swamps where they hide late season. Takes a special tough dog to hunt those areas. “My dogs are now about the least trained bird dogs that ever went afield. I let them do what pleases them best, they do best what they know they how, and we have a grand time together; but it is a scandalous handling in the eyes of a stranger.”
First read that at least a dozen years ago, when I was just getting to be old enough to fully appreciate it. That is a philosophy a trainer buddy of mine coined - FDA or "Follow Dog's Azz." It was merely turn the dog loose and let instinct and birds do the training. It looks wild and disorganized but it has its own structure that is readily apparent if one takes off the blinders. If one has the number of wild birds it takes to train this way, there is no better method. It is one reason so many dog trainers operated out of the northern prairie states as there were many wild birds to train on and they could be run through the summer. My best dogs came from the hey days of the late 1980s to the early 2000s when wild birds were common locally as well as in many other states I traveled to. When one can get a dozen wild bird contacts 3+ times a week for years, a dog gains an awful lot of experience handling birds. A move, changes in habitat, different life circumstances, new interpretation of laws, and decreased bird populations made such training less available to me. Planted birds and various tools are needed to simulate wild birds but it is not the same. One can get an approximation but it still takes numbers of wild birds to finish a dog.
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