24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,513
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,513
We never needed yo-yo's, yet we seem to have an abundance!

BP-B2

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
Originally Posted by djs
OK, we all know the Federal Government is sending out stimulus money to keep people afloat (food and necessities) and to businesses (to keep them from going under. I think we all agree (well, most of us) that keeping people from starving and under-a-roof, etc., is a good thing - at least to avoid violence and mayhem.

There are limits to any nation’s largess and ability to sustain crushing debt. Do we need to be selective in saving certain critical industries and companies at eh expense of less vital ones?

What about businesses? Which businesses and industry sectors should be saved? Certainly, we know that the aerospace, automotive, pharmaceutical, machine tool and, steel industries are vital (both for defense and trade), but should we give (or loan) money to local small businesses, such as restaurants, craft shops, bike shops, etc.

Certain industries are difficult to enter due to the cost of entry and research required (e.g., aerospace), while other are easy to enter (restaurants being one example). Do we prioritize some industries at the expense of others?

On a related front, as a taxpayer, I am very willing to keep the vital industries afloat, but I want a return on my “investment”. Perhaps as a condition of a loan, the taxpayer receives interest (at a low rate), or receives stock in the company. This latter situation has a precedent in the 2008 financial meltdown – the government invested money into GM and received stock that they later sold, mitigating the loss of taxpayer funds.

“Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy. Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally). Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan. A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization#Bailouts

What are your thoughts?


Lets setup a death panel for business.






Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Originally Posted by MM879
The Airline industry needs to be at the top of the list. Air travel is key to world wide business. The US system is based on Air Travel more than most countries. The Airlines and Boeing are in big trouble now. I don't know how leveraged they are, but I would bet they are dependent on each other.



Reliance on world wide business is what brought us this pandemic and killed off our economy, one built on international buy-sell, not built on our on-shore production.

I'm 180 from you on this.


Hunt with Class and Classics

Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray

Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”







Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,796
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by Pat85
Originally Posted by djs
OK, we all know the Federal Government is sending out stimulus money to keep people afloat (food and necessities) and to businesses (to keep them from going under. I think we all agree (well, most of us) that keeping people from starving and under-a-roof, etc., is a good thing - at least to avoid violence and mayhem.

There are limits to any nation’s largess and ability to sustain crushing debt. Do we need to be selective in saving certain critical industries and companies at eh expense of less vital ones?

What about businesses? Which businesses and industry sectors should be saved? Certainly, we know that the aerospace, automotive, pharmaceutical, machine tool and, steel industries are vital (both for defense and trade), but should we give (or loan) money to local small businesses, such as restaurants, craft shops, bike shops, etc.

Certain industries are difficult to enter due to the cost of entry and research required (e.g., aerospace), while other are easy to enter (restaurants being one example). Do we prioritize some industries at the expense of others?

On a related front, as a taxpayer, I am very willing to keep the vital industries afloat, but I want a return on my “investment”. Perhaps as a condition of a loan, the taxpayer receives interest (at a low rate), or receives stock in the company. This latter situation has a precedent in the 2008 financial meltdown – the government invested money into GM and received stock that they later sold, mitigating the loss of taxpayer funds.

“Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy. Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally). Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan. A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization#Bailouts

What are your thoughts?


Lets setup a death panel for business.



YA! her Fuhrer,
.... Vee Hof Zee Solution to zee COVID problem!


“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
― G. Orwell

"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?"
_Eileen Clarke


"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience."
- Alexander Hamilton


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341
Hotels and golf courses.


The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.
IC B2

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,570
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,570
Originally Posted by SBTCO
Ever heard of the term FASCISM?!?.. cuz that is exactly what you are supporting.


Let's not give djs too much credit for being right minded here.

"It is better to be a fascist than a fahgot" - Allesandra Mussolini (granddaughter of Benito)

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,371
H
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,371
How about no government grants/gifts...just loans and let the strong survive.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,796
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by handwerk
How about no government grants/gifts...just loans and let the strong survive.



The guv can just barely afford to pay the interest on their own loans.


“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
― G. Orwell

"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?"
_Eileen Clarke


"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience."
- Alexander Hamilton


Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Roads, highways, railroads, the electrical grid... The construction industries that maintain and build all this.


Hunt with Class and Classics

Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray

Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”







Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,223
A
acy Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,223
My suggestion would have been to not shut down the economy and destroy businesses in the first place. Would have been pretty simple to tell the older sick people, or even younger sick people, to self quarantine if they wanted. If the at risk were self quarantined, everyone else could go about the business of living.

IC B3

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
I know what Joe would say. Trump is a keynesian also, so there will have to be multiple stumuli until everyone is full.













Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"

Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."

MOLON LABE





Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
Originally Posted by handwerk
How about no government grants/gifts...just loans and let the strong survive.


Good, lets start with the Middle east.






Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,000
O
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
O
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by djs
Originally Posted by Orion2000
Let's start off with some simple things like farmers, ranchers, growers, dairymen, food processing... Ya know, simple stuff like FOOD !


Food - YES, but small farmers or the large farming operations that supply the bulk of the production? Can we afford to support small farms?

Granted, the largest number of farms are small farms, but larger farms provide over 75% of our food production. (source: Dept of Agriculture)

All producers. Our area is +95% what the USDA would consider small to mid sized producers. Our cattlemen do not need bail out money. They simply need the packers to start paying a reasonable price for animals at the stock yards. We have grocery chains and super markets RAISING the price on meat and dairy claiming shortages. Yet producers are loosing money on each animal. And dairymen are dumping milk. Something is "broken" in the middle of the supply chain. Fix that "break" and our producers should be able to get back in the game.

To be clear, farming and ranching are always a crap shoot. And cattle in our area were at or approaching the bottom of the 10 year cycle before Covid. However, the current situation wreaks of price fixing and market manipulation. As noted in another thread, no one seems to want to enforce the anti-trust laws anymore. Producers don't need a bail out. Just a level playing field.



Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,035
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,035
Originally Posted by hanco
Strip clubs!


You know how many community colleges would fold up without all those ‘single moms”?!?!?!?

Itd be catastrophic!


“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,035
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,035
Originally Posted by Orion2000
Let's start off with some simple things like farmers, ranchers, growers, dairymen, food processing... Ya know, simple stuff like FOOD !



Those fellas ain’t ever made a dollar anyway. Just ask ‘em.


“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
D
djs Offline OP
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Originally Posted by SBTCO
Originally Posted by djs
as a taxpayer, I am very willing to keep the vital industries afloat, but I want a return on my “investment”. Perhaps as a condition of a loan, the taxpayer receives interest (at a low rate), or receives stock in the company. .....What are your thoughts?




Ever heard of the term FASCISM?!?.. cuz that is exactly what you are supporting.








Ah ha. You openly admit it! You support socialism and NOT capitalism! You want to use taxpayer money to support everything, not just the efficient and essential.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
Originally Posted by djs

Ah ha. You openly admit it! You support socialism and NOT capitalism! You want to use taxpayer money to support everything, not just the efficient and essential.


The government not allowing a business to operate is some how capitalism???






Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,651
2
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
2
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,651
Let's not save them let's get the government and panicky out of the way and let them save themselves.


Broncos are officially the worst team in the nation this year.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,570
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,570
Originally Posted by Pat85
Originally Posted by handwerk
How about no government grants/gifts...just loans and let the strong survive.


Good, lets start with the Middle east.


Good idea, and we need to be sure to cut off every single country located in the Middle East. Leave not a single one still on the dole.

100% agree.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,168
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
America needs, defense, mining, timber, energy, ag, food processing, and distribution to retail stores.

All else is superfluous.


So what do you do with the rest of the people when the positions are filled in theses sectors?






Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
224 members (12344mag, 160user, 257 roberts, 257robertsimp, 257 mag, 10Glocks, 24 invisible), 1,871 guests, and 851 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,728
Posts18,400,793
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.095s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9026 MB (Peak: 1.0600 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 10:35:15 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS