Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 30-06 bullet in bear country

All of you who hunt or fish in Alaska or elsewhere bears are present what is your preferred bullet? I’m not talking brown bears but black and grissly . Would a 220 go regular Hornady be fine assuming distances are not over 150 yards?. Has to be a 30-06, even though something bigger might be better, that is not my question. Thanks

any well constructed hunting bullet will work fine. There's no magic involved. Pick what shoots well and personally, id keep it at or above 180gr for cup and core, and 165 gr and above for copper solids. However, I wouldn't worry at all about using a 165gr partition (or similar).

168 TTSX

One of my favorite bullets for the '06 is the 168gr TTSX.

I have been shooting the 168gr TTSX in several 30-06s on bull moose, black and brown bears for a long time. I have yet to recover one and have used many different bullets over the years. For a lot of different reasons from always providing an exit to less ruined meat i am not looking to change bullets.

220 gr RN SP cup and core from Hawk bullets. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

180gr or 200gr Swift A-Frame or a 180gr, 200gr or 220gr Nosler Partition.

How fast do you run the TTSX?

I would choose a 180 partition or a 168 grain TTSX. Push them as fast as you have good accuracy.

Frankly I don't see a lot of reason for the 200+ grain round nose and semi-spitzer bullets to continue to exist. They were the best answer maybe once upon a time but that time is long gone and there are better choices today ... like the 2 I said I'd choose.

Tom

Ok thanks all. I think I will be happy with 200 gr. Partitions or trophy bonded. I’ll get both and see who shoots

My 308 shot 200 grain Partitons into little bitty groups. Kinda hard not to feel some love for those suckers.

I do not get to 2800, but fairly close, using AA3100. I have also used a lot of IMR4831 and also the military 30-06 powder. I forget the actual label name...

Bears are surprisingly soft targets. Lots of hair, but relattively thin skin and light bones. I have quite a few Partitions recovered from bears yet have never seen a Barnes that stuck around.

Back in the late 80's I abandoned the wonderful 200 grain .30 caliber Nosler Partition bullet in my 30-06 for the Barnes X in 180 grains. I now run the 175 grain Barnes LRX in my old pre-64 Featherweight and the Barnes 168 grain TTSX in my little Husqvarna Lite 30-06. I have been using H4350, but will try StaBall 6.5 with the 175 grain load this year. Other bullets work, but make mine a Barnes X of some flavor.

Any bullet that is tough enough for a grizzly is tough enough for a brown bear. Shots at "charging" bears are hard to justify to our Fish & Game Dept. if the first shot is taken must past 30 feet, as bears may "bluff" charge.

I killed a few bears of different varieties using the 180 Interlock and 180 Partition. I have recovered a few. If I wanted a guaranteed exit, I’d go 200 Partition or a mono in the 165-180 range.

Perfect and I bet if Phil Shoemaker chimed in that would be one he would recommend. If on a sheep or caribou hunt I would lean towards the 165 mono. Either way if you really need it the 30-06 will feel like a pea shooter until the bear goes down, then it will feel alright. Been close but haven't had to kill a bear under duress.

All the bears I've whacked with a .30-06 were with 180 Partitions or Accubonds. One was taken with a 100 NBT from a .25-06, but I already knew I was going after a smaller bear when I got the call.

Tejano,

Actually, I believe Phil used the 220-grain Partition on the last wounded brown bear he followed up with a .30-06. That was because he does a lot of penetration tests with various bullets, both handgun and rifle, and found the 220 Partition (which hasn't been around nearly as long as the 200-grain) penetrated deeper than any other .30-caliber expanding bullet he's tested. It would certainly work for the 150-yard limit the OP mentioned.

I also know Phil likes monolithics as well.

Thanks MD. Memory is no what it used to be, now I recall Phi'ls posting on the 220. I believe that is one where Nosler moved the partition forward slightly more than the 200 grain even. That and lower velocity will provide some major penetration. The old sourdoughs liked the various 220's for the same reason. They were even used on whale and walrus which are pretty big animals. usually along with a harpoon.

I wish Phil would write more, maybe a collaboration with you could motivate him?

When it’s getting dark and you are in a small area where 3 moose kills are being fed on by grizzly you will want a bigger gun. Fact! Ed k

Phil is working on a book, and may be making real progress this spring, as non-resident bear hunting has been shut down in Alaska at least until June.

When Grancel Fitz took every big game animal in North America with his .30-06, if I recall correctly he used the 220-grain Remington Core-Lokt roundnose on big stuff. Back then all Core-Lokts had heavy jackets, and the few remaining roundnoses might still--they did until at least a decade ago. The Pointed Soft-Point Core-Lokts have had thinner jackets for close to 30 years.

The one whaling experience I've had occurred in Hudson's Bay, during an interlude in a caribou hunt almost 20 years ago. Was hunting with the local Inuits out of Arviat, on the west side of the bay, and one day a bunch of beluga whales showed up just offshore--which look like miniature Moby Dicks, growing up to about 20 feet long. Everybody jumped in their boats and went after them, and I got to go along. They used harpoons with heads made of thin copper, pounded around the head of the detachable shaft, attached with a rope to an empty plastic 10-gallon gasoline can. They't stick a whale, then let it tow the "float" around for a while until the whale got exhausted and stayed near the surface--where they'd shoot it in the head. The rifle and load of choice in the boat I rode in was an ancient, unmodified .303 Lee-Enfield, with old round-nosed 215-grain mil-surp ammo. It worked.

Most of the bullets mentioned in previous posts should work fine. I have tried most but, like all of you, I have favorites due to past experiences. Mine is the 200 gr Partition, due to both its short and long range abilities.

Federal makes a factory ammo with a 200 grain trophy bonded bullet that is approved by APHA. Looks good but I haven't tried it on a bear.

I’m a big fan of the 200g partition. They shoot great in my rifles and work well on everything I’ve shot with them.

Phil writes a book, I'll buy it. Probably put it between Aagaard and Barsness on the shelf, even if it isn't quite alphabetical.

A all around hunting load for a 30-06 or any caliber for big game may be a bit different then a dedicated "bear killer" for close range work. For sure a 200 grain Partition is a good choice and we used them for years. If I wanted to load up a "bear Killer" for the fairly rare charging bear I would either use the 220 grain semi-spitzer Nosler Partition or the 200 grain Barnes TSX, which I would suspect if both were driven close to 2,500 fps, would out penetrate the 220 grain Partition. But, I have no experience with either bullet at those weights.

Truth is, I really don't know any one that changes loads in their favorite "Old Betsy". Most every one I know runs a Barnes X of some flavor or a Nosler Partition or Accubond and they feel it is adequate for what ever pops out of the alders. For me personally, I kind of draw the line at a 168 grain TTSX out of a 30-06 for and all around Alaskan rifle and go up from there.

I used to think killing and penetration went hand in hand, with in reason. I still prefer my bullet to exit a critter, but I also want a good sized permanent wound channel and I know a Partition opens up quickly. Anyway, both should do the job, but I will probably go with the 200 grain Barnes TSX version if I ever want a "bear killer" load for my little 6 lb. Husqvarna Lite 30-06.

I'm not a "been there-done that" guy so take this for what it's worth. Normally I shoot the 165 TTSX in my .30-06 but for your concerns, I'd find a box of Hornady 180 grain round nose bullets and go at it......I might also use the 200 grain round nose.....

Not me. Have seen too many cup-and-cores fail to penetrate when needed, including heavy-for-caliber roundnoses, which tend to open wider and sometimes come apart, even on deer-sized game.

Some older cup-and-core round-noses, such as the original heavy-jacket Core-Lokts, tended to hold together much better.

Good news.

Yes it is.

I've only shot one bear, a cinnamon colored black, but I don't count as a hunt, the damn thing got to close to me bow hunting elk and mule deer, hit it in the left eye at 20 yards, 125gr Thunderhead buried in the base of skull and neck vertebrae, that said, if I had my '06's in bear country, they'd be loaded with 220gr Partitions at 2550 fps, range wouldn't be a concern, defense shots would be close.

I run a 150gr TTSX out of my -06 @ 3040 fps and not a damn thing in the lower 48 has a chance in hell to stop it. Like a hot knife in butter plucking up everything in its path. Period. I would not hesitate to go after the biggest bear with this combo. That said Sitka Deer and the likes have seen the 168gr TTSX in action and I've no doubt they know exzactly what they are talking about. It very well may be a better choice. And then there is Phil! 458win! Never doubt this man on advice from a 30-06 and big bears. I'm in Idaho and and hunt Elk and bear and hopefully moose but see Grizz at least once a season. OMG! I feel sorry for the bear that charges me with that 150gr TTSX outta my -06! It will be his last day. Period. A beast of a killer bullet.. Unlike anything I've ever seen. And I'm a huge Partition fan!

I hope this isn't too far off subject, but how does a 7mm 175grn Partition compare to the .30 cal 200 & 220's? I'm not talking about stopping a bear, but just penetration on big stuff like moose.

175 grain 7mm bullet has very slightly higher sectional density(.31) than a 200 grain .30 cal(.301), but less than the 220 grain .30 cal(.331).
Of course, bullet construction varies. The 220 is supposed to have the partition placed further forward than the 200. But not sure how the partition on the 7mm relates, but from pictures it looks similar to the 200.

Having zero experience shooting bears, I'm with Phil all the way. 200 grain Partitions.

Thought he switched to the 220.

His post above on 4/20 says he likes the 200 grain Partition, works far and near.

Oh. Sorry. I didn't see it. But now I do.

That is one of the advantages of the 200-grain Partition, both over the 220 Partition and lighter bullets. Nosler lists the G1 ballistic coefficient as .481, but Bryan Litz's independent rating is a little higher, especially at velocities down to 2000 fps. This doesn't mean it's a bullet for "long range hunting," but does mean it's far from just a "woods" bullet.

I have carried three different 30-06 rifles at different times around the areas full of grizzly bears. An M1 Garand, a Browning M95 and a Mauser scout rifle.
In every case I have loaded the rifle with 220 grain bullets. I am not hunting the bears, so I don't care at all about long distance. No bear is dangerous unless it's close. They can't hurt you at all until they are in touching distance.

The Mauser and the M95 share ammo. It gives me about 2500 FPS from the 95 and about 2435 in the shorter Mauser. The M1 has it's owe ammo, loaded with 3031 powder so the port pressure is correct. It works perfectly and the bullet chronographs at about 2350 FPS at the muzzle, but the recoil is very easy and you can fire an M1 very fast for not just the 1st shot but the following shots too. I have come to favor it over most other rifles because of it's quickness, not just for repeated shots but for the 1st one too.

I have killed elk with both these loads from the M1 and from the 95, and the effect of the 220 grain bullets is decisive. The penetrate very well and break big bone easily. If a bear is "coming at you" all the vitals are on the side of the target closest to you, so most deer rifles will kill a grizzly, but the good fast stops are usually a function of breaking bones. One thing I saw in Africa was how sometimes on big cats and on buffalo the back end fell first and drug down the beast when shot from the front. I learned the bullets was going clear through and breaking the spine or pelvis and hindering or dropping the rear of the animal first, which buys you some time or even stops the charge. So I would assume it would be the same on a bear. Maybe Phil could chime inhere and tell us if that's what he's seen too?

Anyway, the 220 grain 30 cal bullets from a 30-06 do a LOT of damage and go deep even when loaded down a bit in the M1. So I load them and I like them for use in the forested and bushy areas. They are just fine out to about 250 yards from my M95 and my Mauser, and with the M1 you can simply dial up the rear sight in about 1 second, so they are good to any distance you are capable of shooting with an iron sighted rifle.

Will probably never kill a big bear, but if I was out there, I'd be listening to you and Phil.

Reports I've read show 220 NPT penetration equals or exceeds most bullets, even larger calibers.

DF

I've loaded ( but never killed anything) the Woodleigh 240 "30-06" in three different 10" twist rifles. Great accuracy and 2400fps in one 24 inch one. I bet that would work! All we have is black bears ( some say there are a few grizzlies, I don't know) but I don't like them close at all, 12ga pump camp gun works for me!

Yup.

I'm more of a fisherman than a hunter. Gotta admit, my interest stems from an incident where I was fishing on the Alaska Peninsula, a few miles south of Phil's operation. Up pops a bear on the shore right behind me as I'm wading. Just stood up. I smelled him before seeing him and turned around to see what the smell was about. Got the heck outta there. Later thinking that nothing short of a crew served weapon would have reduced the pucker factor.

Read about Phil's similar encounter while guiding fishermen and how he put a big one down with hard cast from his 9mm. Don't try that at home, as they say on TV... The best gun is the one you have in your hand at the time, maybe not the one you would have chosen, given the option.

DF

I live in bear country.

I have found after many bears that a 30-06 with a 200 grain Accubond kills equally with any of the mediums which I have had many.

Velocity is 2650-2700 ft/s depending on powder.

Defense action on bears are super short range proposition , when hunting bear the ranges are generally short almost never more than 150 yards.

Bears are not that hard to kill, but they do not stop easily unless a through the shoulder shot is used.

Hence the 150 yard general limit.

Dirtfarmer, I don't live in bear country and will probably never hunt bears, but like Africa, I love to read the stories. Folks like Phil Shoemaker, Mule Deer, Finn Aagaard, and Brian Pearce (and others) who write from experience, in such an entertaining way, sure keep my magazine stash, and when possible, bookshelf, happy and full.

lmao, and if available to be read i'd be passing word for word info straight from Phil and MD both to You, speaking of DG ammo, I'd have a case full of H-4831 so NO bullet set back/feeding issues would arise, it would also wear a nice heavy pinch from a Lee FCD, each loaded round would then be hand run through the weapons, just the same as I do for SD/CCW ammo in both rifle and pistol, thinking the situation would be stressful enough without worrying about ammo FTF issues.

Memory serves me, I recall Jack O'Connor writing about shooting across a river
at a grizzly with an '06 and 180gr something and putting three straight through it.
That had too be a few yrs before monolithics.
Oldcuss

It was also a small bear

In a 30/06 I would use 165/168 TTSX bullets on any bear put there.

I have 200gn Partitions, 200gn Barnes LRX, 200gn Barnes TTSX, 220gn Woodleigh Wedlcore and 220gn partitions on my bench but for defense in lieu of a hunt with placed shot, I'd likely pick one of the 220gn for the additional bullet weight. If it was a hunt with a chosen shot placement, any of the 200's would please me and not the bear,

When I lived in Kodiak I went with 200 Partitions in my -06. Never got to squeeze the trigger, but I was confident the bullet would do its job.

I've never shot a bear but if common sense counts, I think you have a recipe for success. I've shot hogs with a 200 grain Sierra Game King and it anchored 'em grave yard dead at over 100 yards with my sweet Remington SPS .30-06. So I know that if a SGK will work on a big ol' hog a Partition will knock a bear on its butt.

Sorry im late to the party. I tried yesterday to add a photo but the attachment manager doesn't come up; maybe by design.

The picture i wanted to add is of two recovered 30 cal bullets. The first is a 220g Hornady RN recovered from an elk at 35 yards shot out of a M1895 Win 30-40; it did not hit bone. It's 37 grains of jacket that includes the base and shank; no sign of any lead. The 2nd bullet is a 180g Speer RN recovered from a black bear shot at 10 yards from a 30-06 (MV 2600 fps). This bullet hit the RF shoulder and was recovered under the hide of the left hip. It weighs 145g and is a perfect mushroom.

I haven't read all of the posts and im sure there have been a lot of great recommendations. This is just a sample of 2; recovered bullets don't happen all that often.

Read this advice from you years ago. A few years later while visiting the SPS site they had them (blems) for $15 a bag of 50. so I bought 250 of them. Why not? when they were cheaper than cup n core. Going to work up a load with them and RL-19 this spring for my Springfields. MB

+3

I dig your style with the M1. I've hunted here in MT with an M1. Love it. However, I use a 165 Sierra GK HPBT. It works really well on game. What I like better is my 18" M14 with the same projectile and a 20 round mag. Yes, I hunt with it and yes, I feel confident trucking around in Griz country. Where I live in Western MT, there's usually more than one bear when there's an encounter. I also carry a .44 mag on my hip.

I have a 375 H&H and other big bore calibers. They're cool and all, but I prefer there 30 cal autoloader in bear country here .

George Folta, who is features in the book ALASKA'S BEAR HUNTING JUDGE was a big proponent of semi autos for hunting bears. He was a gun person but took hundreds of big brown bears with his M8 .35 Remington and eventuall adopted the M1 Garand.

I hope this works...


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Many decades ago, I first read about the 9.3x62 in a magazine article. It was used by a "one armed hunter" who had a gunsmith rebarrel his "Mod 742" to fire it reliably. He then went and shot a Brown Bear with! I was using my dad's Mod 742, 30-06, and if it got through a magazine w/o a serious jam...well..it never happened! ha That article "peaked" my interest in the 9.3x62 but I knew I would "pee" my pants if I had to use a Mod 742 on those big bears! Wow! lol...I am one OCD freak on reliability. lol

SPS has 180 gr NPT Protected Points in 2nds right now for $23.45/ 50 not 200-220's but inexpensive partitions for less than big bear at a reasonable price. MB

The question is really moot, as a person can save a great deal of weight by forgoing the rifle altogether and just carrying a .45-70 cartridge. When shown to a troublesome bear, said bear will immediately drop dead out of respect and fear. For those not wishing to go through the hassle of proving that killing the bear was justified, switching to a .45-55 load will merely stun the bear long enough to allow for the person to safely exit the area.