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Haven't flown in over 10 years and I'm not going to fly in the next 10 years. I'm done hunting Africa and overseas and I just don't need the aggravation. I build in a few extra days and drive.


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3 of the last four years I’ve flown weekly minimum of 4 months. Also did 6 months. And one year was every other week to Mexico.

Pull on boots at TSA. A backpack that easily slides my computer out. No contraband. Beyond that, I read the Camofire until it’s my turn to board. No muss. No fuss.

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Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by Pat85
If one has to travel through out the year and can nail down your dates several months down the road, there are some deals to be had.



Great deals now. Just picked ups flight to Alaska for under $300 end of August for silvers and steelhead


Booked three flights I know I have to take. Going to save $1100 compared to what I paid last year.






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Originally Posted by Bristoe
I'm about over traveling, anyway. For the most part I'm perfectly content to stay home.

My idea of a vacation is to go to some area and wander around. Stay one place a day or two, then drive to some other place,..repeat until it's time to come home.

My wife likes to go to the coast somewhere and just sit there for a week. I drive her to the ocean someplace about twice a year and stay bored as hell until it's time to come home.

I'm about done with that, too.

I may have made my last trip to Florida. There's nothing in Florida that's worth driving through Atlanta.

Fishing.


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if its less than 7 hours for business I'm driving, less than 13 for vacation.

mainly because I can pick when I leave and go, if I want to stop along the way to see the worlds biggest aluminum foil ball or get a chili cheese burger from some dive, I can

if you think about the drive to the airport, economy parking hassle, getting there an hour early, a connecting flight with a layover, getting baggage, rental car..etc, its adds alot of time to the flight. It might be a 3 hour flight but you still burn 6 or 7 hours dealing with it.

I wish we had a much better train system, I'd burn a day on a train, but travel now is so limited and they can't even guarantee when you will arrive due to freight trains getting right of way.

I'd also love for Americans to revolt against air travel and demand better service from airlines. Especially after 3 taxpayer bailouts in 20 years.

Last edited by KFWA; 04/20/20.

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Driving the Alcan is much easier on the nerves.
If you're coming to Alaska to hunt and have the time, drive it! You'll thank me.

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Originally Posted by Cheesy
3 of the last four years I’ve flown weekly minimum of 4 months. Also did 6 months. And one year was every other week to Mexico.

Pull on boots at TSA. A backpack that easily slides my computer out. No contraband. Beyond that, I read the Camofire until it’s my turn to board. No muss. No fuss.

there ya go. Someone that understands if flying is the worst you have to deal with life is pretty dang easy.

I get some don't want to and thats fine.

But the constant bitching about every last thing under the sun... every time I read all the bitching I just drift off to thinking about the ones that could have a right to bitch, pulled into wars. In a landing craft about to drop the front gate, to get shot, shelled, drowned, machine gunned... most had no chance to get very far...

Yeah flying really really sucks.....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by VernAK
Driving the Alcan is much easier on the nerves.
If you're coming to Alaska to hunt and have the time, drive it! You'll thank me.

Well, its not cheap to drive it. Thats for sure. Grand scenery. I think we could maybe drive it in 72 or so hours so I'll take the 24 or less it takes me A to B on a plane etc...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Most Americans feel about the airlines and .gov handouts to the Airline Industry just as the ranter in the OP. Many sources claim that around 40% of Americans fly commercially each year. The other 60% of us are subsidizing their travel desires.

But we all know how polls can be manipulated depending on the agenda of the pollsters. I am skeptical of the accuracy of these numbers. They would be easy to skew simply by directing calls toward upper level businessmen and executives.

The median American HOUSEHOLD income for 2018 was 62,000/anum. Take state, federal, property, & local taxes out of that. Oops, can't forget Social Security and Medicare. Take out a mortgage or rent payment, car payment, insurance on a house and car; gas, tires, fuel, and repairs on the car, and then groceries, electricity, water, & sewer for the house.

That does not leave much cash left over for frivolities such as air travel.

I know. If I get enough overtime, I can just about hit that $62,000 number. I will die with never having seen the inside of an airport. As will the vast majority of my family and social group. (Of course there is that group which just puts the tickets on the Visa Card, and then takes out bankruptcy after they get home.) You and I are subsidizing them again.

Most of us are just a bit tired of subsidizing other peoples vacations.


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I hope that guy doesn't have the corona virus because he spits when he gets upset...
Cheesy and rost495 have the correct attitude. There's just a bunch of grumpy old men here who complain about everything.

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I don’t mind flying. They can treat me like cattle if I can get from Alaska to Phoenix in 5 hours of flight time.

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Originally Posted by KFWA
if its less than 7 hours for business I'm driving, less than 13 for vacation.

mainly because I can pick when I leave and go, if I want to stop along the way to see the worlds biggest aluminum foil ball or get a chili cheese burger from some dive, I can

if you think about the drive to the airport, economy parking hassle, getting their an hour early, a connecting flight with a layover, getting baggage, rental car..etc, its adds alot of time to the flight. It might be a 3 hour flight but you still burn 6 or 7 hours dealing with it.

I wish we had a much better train system, I'd burn a day on a train, but travel now is so limited and they can't even guarantee when you will arrive due to freight trains getting right of way.

I'd also love for Americans to revolt against air travel and demand better service from airlines. Especially after 3 taxpayer bailouts in 20 years.


Is Greyhound out of business? My Mom used to occasionally ride the bus from Boise to Seattle and back when her parents were living in Wa.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
occasionally I have no choice

but I don't fly enough to get perks like better seats or getting on earlier, so I'm in that undesirable position of flying just often enough to always sit by the 320 pound guy that brought a footlong sub sandwich to eat on the flight while the mother of the 2 year old behind me is already apologizing to me about how bad her kid is before I sit down.

that damn kid was on every flight I ever made, flew for 15 years ,2-3 times a week, and every one of those flights , there was that kid! never grew up, legs just long enough to kick the back of my seat. constantly from Spokane to Boston, and back! only flight the little bugger missed was to Spain. think they put him in the Hold!


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Most Americans feel about the airlines and .gov handouts to the Airline Industry just as the ranter in the OP. Many sources claim that around 40% of Americans fly commercially each year. The other 60% of us are subsidizing their travel desires.

But we all know how polls can be manipulated depending on the agenda of the pollsters. I am skeptical of the accuracy of these numbers. They would be easy to skew simply by directing calls toward upper level businessmen and executives.

The median American HOUSEHOLD income for 2018 was 62,000/anum. Take state, federal, property, & local taxes out of that. Take out a mortgage or rent payment, car payment, insurance on a house and car; gas, tires, fuel, and repairs on the car, and then groceries, electricity, water, & sewer for the house.

That does not leave much cash left over for frivolities such as air travel.

I know. If I get enough overtime, I can just about hit that $62,000 number. I will die with never having seen the inside of an airport. As will the vast majority of my family and social group. (Of course there is that group which just puts the tickets on the Visa Card, and then takes out bankruptcy after they get home.) You and I are subsidizing them again.

Most of us are just a bit tired of subsidizing other peoples vacations.

Flying isn't that expensive. Say that you want to go fishing in Florida from Idaho. Between the gas, tolls, hotel stays on the road and depreciation on your vehicle, it would be cheaper to fly. That and instead of driving 5-6 days, you're fishing.
My wife and I fly to LA every year to visit her family at Thanksgiving. Plane fare for two is around $1500. It's a lot better than 3 days driving each way, 6 extra nights in hotels and putting 5000 miles on a personal vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by KFWA
if its less than 7 hours for business I'm driving, less than 13 for vacation.

mainly because I can pick when I leave and go, if I want to stop along the way to see the worlds biggest aluminum foil ball or get a chili cheese burger from some dive, I can

if you think about the drive to the airport, economy parking hassle, getting their an hour early, a connecting flight with a layover, getting baggage, rental car..etc, its adds alot of time to the flight. It might be a 3 hour flight but you still burn 6 or 7 hours dealing with it.

I wish we had a much better train system, I'd burn a day on a train, but travel now is so limited and they can't even guarantee when you will arrive due to freight trains getting right of way.

I'd also love for Americans to revolt against air travel and demand better service from airlines. Especially after 3 taxpayer bailouts in 20 years.


Is Greyhound out of business? My Mom used to occasionally ride the bus from Boise to Seattle and back when her parents were living in Wa.




I was stranded in a Mexican border town in January and walked to Deming NM where I caught a Greyhound to Phx. I was the ONLY white guy on the bus including the driver. Bus stank to high heavens. I wouldn't ride a Greyhound again on a bet.


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Originally Posted by UPhiker

Flying isn't that expensive. Say that you want to go fishing in Florida from Idaho. Between the gas, tolls, hotel stays on the road and depreciation on your vehicle, it would be cheaper to fly. That and instead of driving 5-6 days, you're fishing.
My wife and I fly to LA every year to visit her family at Thanksgiving. Plane fare for two is around $1500. It's a lot better than 3 days driving each way, 6 extra nights in hotels and putting 5000 miles on a personal vehicle.


Apparently you have little concept of $62K/annum gross pay.

The Federal Tax burden on that is about $6,000/year. Add another $4,000 to that number for Oregon state income tax. Add $4700/year for FICA and Medicare. $2000/year for Electric. $14,000/year for mortgage, $2000/year for Insurance. $6000/year for groceries and household goods. $1500/yr for tires and car repairs. $500/year for vehicle registrations. $2,000/yr for gasoline (45 mile daily round trip commute) $1000/year for property taxes, and $8000/yr into a 401 K. Most people would have to add health insurance premiums to that list, and car payments.

My health insurance is at no cost to me, I paid cash for my vehicles, and only carry liability insurance in most cases.

Yes, the 401 k is going to lower the Tax burden a bit. But still that leaves about $1,000/ month in discretionary income. Which has to cover extraordinary car repairs, and cover all medical/dental/optometrist bills. And I have to save enough of it to cover the cash purchase price of any future vehicles.

The bottom line is, I sure as hell am not purchasing airline tickets to Florida, let alone pay for a motel room anywhere, or charter fishing boats, or out of state fishing/hunting licenses and tags. Nor am I taking off and driving across the country. Few people of median income do.

Not bitching or complaining. This is the area I chose to live and is pretty darned good income for the area. It well covers all of our needs. And leaves me enough to buy reloading supplies and purchase a rifle or revolver once every year or two.

Just making the point that not everybody lives the life of the "Rich and Famous" since 50% of the American Population make less than $62K/year. A lot of them are successfully raising kids on that income.


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Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I was stranded in a Mexican border town in January and walked to Deming NM where I caught a Greyhound to Phx. I was the ONLY white guy on the bus including the driver. Bus stank to high heavens. I wouldn't ride a Greyhound again on a bet.


And apparently you make enough money that you will never have to.

For some, that is the only option available. For my Mom, in the '60s and early '70s the bus was her only option to get to Seattle.


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Given the fact that I had flown millions of miles while working I do not mind flying. We have yet to book our flights to our place in Idaho for the summer awaiting the current outcome and I have yet to book my flights to north BC for a 16 day hunt come early September. I have no issue with pulling them off assuming I can. We also have a fall trip booked for this fall in the east. We will go if we are allowed.


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I don't really mind flying that much, but where I live it's about a wash if it can be driven in 6 hours. I usually choose to drive unless it will take me more than 10 hours, so I only fly a few times a year.


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Back to the point of the rant. I kind of agree with it and then again...
Look the airlines are caught up in this just like we are. The government shut down the economy and they went from full flights to planes with no one in them, overnight. What’s worse, some of them just wanted to shut down for the interim and reopen when this is over, and the government won’t let them because air travel is vital. So, though the number of flights are greatly reduced, they’re still having to run flights with virtually no one on them. ALL OF THIS is by order of the government.

Just like most any other business with high dollar equipment, their equipment is actually owned by the banks and they rely on cash flow to make the payments. So, it may not be that they are holding onto to $10 billion. It’s more likely that they don’t have it right now or they are using it to stay afloat until the bailouts kick in.

Hopefully when things shake out, they’ll make some refunds or something. If they don’t, then I think the anger would be appropriate.

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