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Just for Waders - new thread.

Yep - would assume fitment is 99.5% of the reason but do you think that there's really any difference between the aftermarket barrel makers for handguns? Probably mostly talking about 1911's here.

Lots of choices and I am not buying but I am bored and my new Brownell's catalog showed up last night, was flipping through and got to thinking - the largest percentage of "improvement" in a new barrel probably comes from the care taken in fitting it more so than the name on the hood.

A Kart fitted by competent smith is likely to do just as well as a Wilson or Bar-Sto -I'm thinking. What say you?

Does that change for a different handgun for you? Glock/Sig etc. Does it being a revolver change your answer?

Around the early '80s, I had a new Colt .38 Super. I'd heard the rumors about how poorly the factory Super barrels were, and ordered a BarSto pipe for it. The BarSto shot better with jacketed bullets, but the factory Colt barrel shot equally well with cast slugs. I shot a LOT of cast bullets back then, mostly in 9mm equivalent loads, for plinking and just general messing around.

I found it was mostly the same thing with a Heinie 10mm barrel, too, it worked better with jacketed bullets, but the Colt tube was every bit as good with the cast loads I was shooting then. I don't really think the money spent was worth it, in the case of the 10mm, anyway. In the Super, I think it was money well spent.

I've also swapped some barrels in .45, but I really couldn't tell any difference there, either, except as to bushing fitment. A well-done match bushing will do wonders for a common Colt barrel. Of course, in any of these cases, the link/barrel interface must be "right", too.

"The Colt .45 Automatic a Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen; Section II, Shop Work; page 116.

Mechanical Accuracy / Mechanical Repeatability

Basic mechanical accurizing improvements and estimated individual effectiveness -

1. Minimize frame / slide clearance -- 15%
2. Install match grade barrel -- 10%
3. Fit / install accuracy bushing -- 20%
4. Minimum chamber headspace -- 10%
5. Eliminate rear barrel side play -- 20%
6. Consistent full barrel lug engagement -- 20%
7. Beyond reach -- 5%


Edit to add, I couldn't prove if he is right or wrong but he is considered the 1911 Guru.

All 'new barrel' items - 80%.

Kuhnhausen forgot more than I'll ever know, but truly top 1911 guys rate him about a 6 out of 10. Kuhnhausen has some incorrect ideas about unlock timing. Not a big deal until a guy starts operating a 1911 on the edge.

I have that book, I'm not that far along in it tho. Appreciate the insight.

Just looking at the various price points from different barrel makers - it seems like fit matters more than maker so to speak. Why pay the extra $$ unless you're just dying to say you have a Nighthawk barrel (so to speak and only for example)

Good barrels (assuming fitted well, including bushing/barrel/frame fit) will really show up at 25 & especially 50 yards, with true match grade ammo(almost impossible to find today).

Closer ranges & lesser ammo likely won't show clear changes.

More or less the end of the discussion on 1911's..................there is a reason the old Colt manufactured 7791414 NM barrels & bushing were so sought after by shooter for match guns.

Kart is likely top of the AM barrel accuracy heap today; don't know about the current version of "NM" barrels from Colt, but generally speaking Colt barrels have always been decent, IMO.

Various version of the Colt Gold Cup will typically shoot around 3" from a Ransom Rest at 50 yds; it's more or less a given, that a well built, well barreled gun will do half that................not many are going to win a competitive 50 yd match with a 3" gun.

If you're not consistently shooting 25 yds or greater with real match ammo, probably not worth the work or the money to worry about it unless a gun is shooting patterns instead of groups.

JMHO

MM

MM, I think we agree there are some highly regarded 1911's that are nothing more than mediocre parts wrapped around a Kart barrel.

You gotta be a pretty bad ass pistolero to think your accuracy is going to benefit from a new barrel.

I don't, was just curious.

Back in the day a Shaw rifle barrel was considered junk compared to an Obermeyer/Rock/Krieger.

Both were considered "custom".

Wondering how that flew with pistols.

Academics and the flave Covid thread slowed down on facts so....

Not a parallel function & that's for sure..........................

MM

I only have two 1911s. One is a Baer and one is a Nighthawk. The Baer is incredibly accurate. More accurate than me by far. My Nighthawk originally had a stainless barrel (not sure of brand) and shot good. But definitely not great and certainly not as good as my Baer. I decided to send my Nighthawk back for a Kart barrel and some other cosmetic enhancements. I can tell you that the difference in accuracy is night and day. Was it fit better? Hard to say but it is ridiculously accurate now and I couldn’t be happier. Is it a coincidence that both have Kart barrels and both were fit by experts? Maybe, maybe not.

The issue is that since there is no universal standard for 1911 manufacturing, a drop -in barrel from any manufacturer will need to be loose enough so that it will drop-in to every 1911 ever made or there will be a lot of customer returns.

That means that a replacement barrel has to be loose in all the critical points that define accuracy.

The difference between a match barrel and a stock barrel is that the match barrel is made to be too large in all the critical dimensions so that it won't drop into any 1911, it is made to be fit tightly to the individual pistol by a skilled armorer.

So a drop-in Match barrel might be a match grade barrel as far as the bore and chamber goes, or whatever that means, and one might get lucky, but it's not even 50/50 that it will make any difference.

Do you feel lucky...?

Loose doesn't necessarily mean inaccurate...

Another factor to consider is that every time 1911 tolerances are tightened up there is the potential for a reduction in functional reliability in certain conditions...that's why the original tolerances were intentionally kept loose for production pistols.

For example, I would not cut a "Match" chamber/throat in a 1911 barrel to chase a 1%-5% accuracy bonus, but many manufacturers do. I've had to re-cut many a "match" barrel so that it would feed right.

So it's possibly just a coincidence that newer variations of the 1911 platform from many manufacturers that deviate from the original specifications have feeding and reliability issues...or maybe not.

The closest pistols to the original specs were the post war Colts up until the late 60s...they should be because they were primarily made by a lot of the same folks on a lot of original tooling. They were definitely on the loose side but examples I've had would still have the potential to hold 6" at 50 yards with good ammo.

Some folks might think that's a long way from 1 1/2" at that same range, but the last thing I want to deal with is a finicky 1911...that's an oxymoron, but it depends on your goals.

Loose doesn't necessarily mean inaccurate...

I wonder how many of those mythically inaccurate 1911s out there that can't hit a barn door at 50' but the same pistol in the hands of someone who can shoot a 1911 can eat the center out of that same 50' target...?

No, it doesn't, & to some degree, depends on where it's loose.

Conversely, "tight" also does not necessarily mean accurate; once again, it depends on where it's "tight", & yes, in some areas, it can be too tight.

In addition, there are lots of definitions of "accurate". To me, accuracy is measured at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest & in any given gun, ammo is a huge factor in how the gun will group.

As I said in a previous post, really top grade match ammo is very hard to come by today; day in, day out, Winchester Super Match was the best commercial ammo available, & even then there were measurable differences between lots.

MM