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So back in December i shipped two actions off to be barreled.

I have since shut down the office (my office) that I had originally asked them to be shipped back to. The gunsmith is now telling me that in order for those guns to be returned to a different address (ie my own damn house) they will have to be shipped to an FFL holder and I will have to go through yet another check. For the same damn guns I already went through a check for once and are legally mine.

Apparently they’ve caught a ration of excrement from the ATF and are refusing to do it any other way.

What gives?

Last edited by BeardHunter; 04/22/20.
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In order that his FFL not be in jeopardy there is no other way for your gunsmith to return your guns to an address other than the one he received them from. They have to go to an FFL and you do have to go thru the background check + 4473 and pay whatever fee the FFL charges. Having gone thru the background check/ legally yours make no difference in this case.

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If ups wasn’t so unreliable about shipping to my house I would have had them shipped back there to begin with. I never dreamed or even heard about this problem. Hell I would have been just as well off not telling them where to ship them back to. Lesson learned

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Ironically I shipped them via USPS from the post office down the street.

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That doesn't sound right to me. If I send a firearm tom say Remington for some work, Remington can return it directly to me. I believe this is an exception to the transfer requirements.Check with the ATF.


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There is no surprise here and nothing is out of the ordinary. Yes you can ship a gun to a gunsmith or manufacturer and have it sent back to you with no muss no fuss. Shipping to a different address than to the one on record is going to be treated as any other transfer; sent to an FFL and you got to do the 4473 and background check.

ETA: The address on record is the address that they logged it into their Bound Book. Nobody that I know is going to use White Out or similar in their Bound Book. BATFE is very, very, nit picky with their Bound Book inspections.

Last edited by sbrmike; 04/22/20. Reason: clarification

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Is the exception "return to owner" or "return to same address"? I don't know without looking it up but I'd bet "return to owner." The nearest ATF office should know if it isn't on the ATF Internet page FAQ.


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It would need to go to the address in the Bound Book period. I have an FFL. I am not fudging my books for anybody. The gunsmith received the gun. It should have the information as to the owner and what address it is to be shipped back to. That information must be logged into the Bound Book NLT 24 hours after receipt. The return goes to the same address in the Bound Book with no additional action. A different address is going to have an FFL number in it. That is the way it is.


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Thanks for the clarification. Wasn’t thinking about them having to log it into their book. Had I known I would have had it shipped back to my house originally.

The BATF in the FAQ’s is always clear that it may be shipped without doing a transfer back to the original owner, they just don’t clarify that it has to be original owner AND address.

I’ve been shipping guns for work for twenty years and this was a first for me. Lesson learned.

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Originally Posted by nighthawk
Is the exception "return to owner" or "return to same address"? I don't know without looking it up but I'd bet "return to owner." The nearest ATF office should know if it isn't on the ATF Internet page FAQ.


Try to buy a firearm with one address on the 4473 and a different address on your ID. Not going to happen. It is the same principle.


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I think you gentleman need to check ATF requirements. If someone moves after sending a firearm to a dealer, there's no requirement that says the dealer has to send it to another dealer instead of the owner's new address. Call your nearest ATF service representative and you will get a straight answer. And yes, I had an FFL for over 30 years.


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That's the easy answer. Look to the law:

Quote
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;


18 USC §922(A)(2)(A)

Can return to the person from whom received, says nothing about where. Even the government understands that people move. Now how the ATF wants this annotated in the bound book (if at all) and how your shipper feels about it I don't know.


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According to them, THEIR atf person says it has to go to ffl holder and another 4473 has to be done.

It would appear that this is a rule open to interpretation by the local office overseeing the area.....and in that area it has to go back to an FFL.

I deal with regulations like this, although not firearm related. It’s a pain and you are generally at the mercy of the inspectors interpretation and to challenge it becomes a legal battle not worth fighting.

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Call two different ATF offices in two, or more, states and get at least two different answers to your question. When an item is sjhipped to me for repair, it don't go in the bound A&D book, it goes in the reapair log.


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Sure people move and the government knows they move. Like I posted earlier, move across town, same county and try to buy a gun at an FFL dealer with your new residence address on the 4473 and your non updated license with your old address. Not going to happen. Sometimes FFL holders try to get you to ship to an address other than the one on their FFL for this reason or that, again it is not legal. John Smith residing at 23 Anywhere Street is not John Smith residing at 45 Somewhere Street.
The ATF has already accomodated individuals by not requiring anything of you to have your gun returned to you. They didn't require any form of ID. Any variation from that accomodation voids that accomodation. If you ever had your Bound Book inspected by the BATFE it is not fun. Nit pic is not the word. If they saw this gun from this guy at this address in the Acquisition side going to a non identical entry in the Disposition side without an FFL number it is not going to fly.

Think about this. You send your gun in. Someone with a similar name knows you sent it in. They contact the gunsmith and ask the gun to be sent to this address instead of the original address; what if he does? He would have to answer for that. What if you sold your gun while it was getting worked on and decided to skirt the law by having it shipped to your name at a different address (buyer's address). No one says he can't ship it to you because you moved, it does mean it is not coming straight back to you because you moved and that it will be sent to a transfer dealer to insure you are you. This protects you and the FFL holder. There are reasons for following regulations.


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Just one thing, this is not some accommodation by ATF. 18 USC §922(A)(2)(A) quoted above is a law enacted by Congress which the ATF MUST follow.

Oh, as I recall the law requires that the shipper makes a good faith effort to insure that the firearm is not shipped to an individual with a legal disability. He is not required to go to extraordinary lengths. As in how does the FFL know that driver's license isn't a fake.


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They have tightened interpretations of late, especially matching IDs with addresses and such...

Would there be a forwarding address in place if the gun was sent to the closed office address?


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