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Originally Posted by teal
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Despite incorrect usage by some, the terms "precision" and "accuracy" have actual scientific definitions and meanings. "Precision" refers to the level of repeatability from measurement to measurement (or in this case, shot to shot), and accuracy refers to the variation between the measured value and the true value (or in this case, the POI versus the intended POI).



I think it was Steelhead that said once when it comes to shooting "Do a group to find a load but I'm more interested in hitting stuff. Can I put round 1 into what I want"

You find the group the rifle likes best, then adjust scope for POI.

The secret for getting that one shot where you want it, is a rifle that puts them near the same hole every time, then you and the rifle being able to deliver the bullet to that spot.

I prefer being a bigger variable than the rifle, at least half the equation is predictable....

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You can't have precision without accuracy. And you can't prove accuracy without precision.

But I'm not a long range hunter in the sense that the term implies today. For me, and my choice in rifle, wind is too much of a variable and too unpredictable in a wild setting to overcome at extreme ranges on live game.
It'd take a long heavy rifle shooting a fast super high bc bullet before I'd even consider preparing to take that shot. A rifle that I don't want to carry in a round that would take a great deal of time and dedication to become proficient enough with in varrying terrains and wind conditions.

My limits are mostly within mpbr, or a little over on a calm day. And my rifle choice means that much over 300 yards is pushing the envelope for my medium game hunting purposes. Maybe 400 in perfect conditions.
At these ranges, from a field position, accuracy and precision aren't out of the realm in this lightweight rifle with it's relatively low power and flat trajectory that make shooting easier.

Although I would like to practice at longer ranges just for the fun of it. Thinkin if I were to add a rifle or two to the collection I'd do it with this in mind.
An RAR-P .223 AI'd in a Boyds stock to get into the game? And one of them Super Chickens on top.
Down the road, something heavier. With more thump on steel. A long range target rig in the guise of an old school blued and walnut high comb long heavy barreled hunting rifle in a gentle shooting Swede or fast twist 6BR.
Then...maybe...with enough practice...utilizing these mild mannered tools...I could begin to combine these two elusive qualities at longer ranges.

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"You can't have precision without accuracy. "

Sure you can, and we've all seen it. A rifle that shoots bughole groups but nowhere near the point of aim, e.g., a foot high and to the right. That's the definition of precision without accuracy.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
"You can't have precision without accuracy. "

Sure you can, and we've all seen it. A rifle that shoots bughole groups but nowhere near the point of aim, e.g., a foot high and to the right. That's the definition of precision without accuracy.

You mean like when Opie was tryin to win an electric razor for Andy and the carnies handed him a rifle with bent sights?

Well I still think you got it backwards, to some degree of accuracy.. But I unsterstand you got eight pages to go to meet your goal.
Your methodology is consistently inprecise.

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Eight pages to go?

I think you're a day late.



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So many acronyms for words these days that I'm lost.

Also - what's a Super Chicken? '78 Firebird? One of my buddies had one with a 400, he never could understand why I always blew him away in my '68 340 eight days a week.

He was all over the place, while I had consistent, repeatable launches.

Could that be the scientific definition of precision vs accuracy as Jordan eloquently outlined a few posts above?

Or could precision vs accuracy actually be a moot point for rifles, and be dependent on the operator?


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Originally Posted by ofelas
So many acronyms for words these days that I'm lost.

Also - what's a Super Chicken? '78 Firebird? One of my buddies had one with a 400, he never could understand why I always blew him away in my '68 340 eight days a week.

He was all over the place, while I had consistent, repeatable launches.

Could that be the scientific definition of precision vs accuracy as Jordan eloquently outlined a few posts above?

Or could precision vs accuracy actually be a moot point for rifles, and be dependent on the operator?


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Originally Posted by ofelas
Also - what's a Super Chicken? '78 Firebird? One of my buddies had one with a 400, he never could understand why I always blew him away in my '68 340 eight days a week.

Yeah. Kinda the same thing. It's like a muscle scope with fancy reticle, a big mag wheel on the top and side, and a big bird on the other side.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Eight pages to go?

I think you're a day late.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

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What bsa illustrated above.


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Precision is a rifle that will shoot 5 shots touching 3 times a month but also shoots 1.5 moa on lots of other days and point of impact may change noticeably. This rifle is often said to be a one hole rifle, well; because it did shoot them into one hole three times that month

Accuracy is a rifle that shoots around 1moa every day of the week, won't put 5 touching very often but never opens up to 1.5 moa and point of impact never changes. At the end of the month it always prints a smaller overall group but is unnoticed by the man who is impressed with 3 one hole groups

Trystan


Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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This is a very precision built rifle as this is an 8 round group from 900 yards:

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]IMG_2029 by .com/photos/61286670N08/]Sharps Man, on [bleep]

But I wasn't accurate shooting it because the POIs are not in the middle!! The first two rounds were 'pressure loads' which I shot into the ground.


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From my seat, 'precision' is just a recent marketing buzzword. It is used to sell rifles, scopes, bipods, bases, rings, triggers, ammo, etc, etc, intended to make for a more accurate rifle.

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Originally Posted by Sharpsman
This is a very precision built rifle as this is an 8 round group from 900 yards:

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]IMG_2029 by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

But I wasn't accurate shooting it because the POIs are not in the middle!! The first two rounds were 'pressure loads' which I shot into the ground.

Nice shooting sharpsman. One of the reasons I shoot a 2" steel plate at 400 yards consistently, is because I like precision and accuracy. If you had a smaller plate, it would force you to try harder... wink

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Despite incorrect usage by some, the terms "precision" and "accuracy" have actual scientific definitions and meanings. "Precision" refers to the level of repeatability from measurement to measurement (or in this case, shot to shot), and accuracy refers to the variation between the measured value and the true value (or in this case, the POI versus the intended POI).

While this may be the absolute definitions of the two, nobody mentions, talks about, or givesashit about correct usage of the term "precision".

As I said above, accuracy is the universal language, group size, and hitting your target, one and the same, to the vast majority of shooters.


Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
From my seat, 'precision' is just a recent marketing buzzword. It is used to sell rifles, scopes, bipods, bases, rings, triggers, ammo, etc, etc, intended to make for a more accurate rifle.

Amen!

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Hey MM, been a good long while about a decade on the 'Hide if i recall since I saw your pretty Krylon'd rigs & 208gr+ projectiles banging on steel beyond what most millennial Haji beard wannabes think a .308 is capable of.

You & yours doing well?

Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
From my seat, 'precision' is just a recent marketing buzzword. It is used to sell rifles, scopes, bipods, bases, rings, triggers, ammo, etc, etc, intended to make for a more accurate rifle.



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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Despite incorrect usage by some, the terms "precision" and "accuracy" have actual scientific definitions and meanings. "Precision" refers to the level of repeatability from measurement to measurement (or in this case, shot to shot), and accuracy refers to the variation between the measured value and the true value (or in this case, the POI versus the intended POI).


I agree. These are not new terms or words, nor do they need to be twisted by common opinions or beliefs.

precision = repeatability (group size)

accuracy = performance against the known standard (POI vs POA)

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Originally Posted by ofelas
Hey MM, been a good long while about a decade on the 'Hide if i recall since I saw your pretty Krylon'd rigs & 208gr+ projectiles banging on steel beyond what most millennial Haji beard wannabes think a .308 is capable of.

You & yours doing well?

Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
From my seat, 'precision' is just a recent marketing buzzword. It is used to sell rifles, scopes, bipods, bases, rings, triggers, ammo, etc, etc, intended to make for a more accurate rifle.




All good here, thanks!

I don't post much on the 'Hide these days, but still read a little, and check out the Motivational Pictures thread at Maggies Drawers....grin

I'm still shooting the 308 and 30-06, nothing much new in my LR game.

Believe it or not, I've taken an interest in traditional archery lately, of all things. I love it.

Last edited by MontanaMarine; 04/26/20.
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Maggies Drawers...hah :-)

Stay safe.


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You too.

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