Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Elmer Keith & Jack O'Connor Scout Rifles:

Before they were called "scout rifles", in the 1960's-1970's, Keith and O'Connor appreciated the forward mounted optic on a compact carbine.

In my June 1966 Guns & Ammo mag, Keith said this on the 350 Rem Mag with Redfield mount/Redfield long eye relief scope :

"This little carbine was designed as a real light rifle for the Alaskan fisherman working brown and grizzly bear country who must have a light stopping rifle."

"The very long eye relief of this fine 2x scope there is no chance of anyone ever getting a cut eye brow from the recoil of the ocular lens"

In my 1970 book, O'Connor said this:

"The famous model 94 fitted with long eye relief so it can be mounted far enough ahead not to interfere with ejected cartridges"

My uncle had Terry Turnbull, who ran the largest gun shop in western NY and was an excellent gunsmith, mount a Leupold 2x pistol scope out on the barrel of his only rifle, a model 94 Win. His eyes were getting older and he wanted the scope because the sights were just too hard to see. The rifle worked fine for him, that had to be around 1976. So the Scout idea had some followers in the 70’s and it was as practical and capable then as it is today.
Back in the 70’s some guys were mounting Leupold 2x scopes on the back sight of the Ithaca model 37 too.

I’ve packed a scout like object for a long time in the Absorokas. It is much too heavy to be a scout. Now my Kimber Montana is a gem to carry. 308 sending 200 Speers at 2425 is this years spring bear rifle.
It’s fast, very handy and easy to hit with.

Blacktail, that's purdy cool, another early recollection of the forward mounted optic "pre scout word".

Present day: I'd sure like to see a 2x nikkon monarch pistol scope on a model 94/450 Marlin. With 350 grain A-frames, that'd be a powerful, handy little hiking rifle.....

I don't recall Old Jack ever recommending that setup, and doubt he wrote the captions for the photo pages in his books. Just sayin'.

Earliest mention of the forward-mounted scope on a 94 I can recall was in "Whitetail, Fundamentals and Fine Points for the Hunter", a fine book BTW. Author George Mattis used one, and said he was "aware of and willing to accept its limitations". He also said that in bad weather he removed the scope and used the sight incorporated in the base. Believe the scope was a 2x Redfield.

I remember that book Pappy. George knew his stuff regarding Whitetails in the woods and took many fine bucks. I have no doubt he made the most of his scoped 94.
I have a custom 94 “Trapper” in 30-30 on which I’d like to forward mount a scope. The problem is, the guy who can make that happen for me swears it will ruin the rifle making it heavier and just plain “untraditional “. So, I’ll probably default to his superior judgement and leave it as is.

I use long eye relief scopes on a few rifles, including my sheep rifle. There is nothing tactical about the wood/ blue levergun in a .270 win.
I am very comfortable the the Burris 2 x 7 power scope on it. I have another on a .450 Marlin levergun, heavier recoiling rifles just don't tend to injure your eye socket due to less than enough eye relief.

My copy, and a bunch of others, came courtesy of the Outdoor Life Book Club. Never quite got the knack of sending those little cards back on time.😛

It's kind of a tradition for me to read a bit of that and Shots at Whitetails every year just before the season opens.

The 37 Deerslayers have a dandy rib on the barrel for the rear sight which would be ideal for mounting a rail. I left mine as-is and just replaced the sights with Williams F.O. ones. That orange triangle front sight is tough for old eyes to make out.

I have mounted a Burris 2 3/4X scout scope on the rear sight of an Ithaca 87 with steel Millitt .22 rings. Worked good.

How could O Connor write anything in the 80s when he died in 1978?

Fixed my typo. Thanks.

I’m positive Jack never owned such a rifle, as those he has owned have been well documented and he kept a good list. What he said in your quote was hit a head nod to their existence and preference by some.

I am aware of only one lever rifle that he championed - the Winchester Model 71 - and he favored the deluxe model with factory aperture sight. He even took it sheep hunting in the Southwest.

If anyone is interested, I have some of the forward mounted Leupold Detacho-Mount bases for the Remington 600s, R600, and Winchester 94s, W94.

i don't have any extra sets of 1" rings, but they regularly show up on eBay for less than $30..

I don't recall having actually seen a Winchester 94 with a forward mounted scope installed on it. I only recall see top-eject Winchester 94s with side-mounts installed on either side of the receiver, mostly on the left side, but a couple on the right side, maybe for left handed shooters.

How much for a set of Detacho's? Might just as well say I'll take one set. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Interesting design:

I put a Burris Scout scope on my M94 in the early 90's, for a while. Amazingly, that combo would put 5 Federal 150gr factory loads in an inch at 100 yards, routinely. But I never warmed up to the look and feel of it, and my rifle mentor at the time became enamored of the Scout concept, and talked me into selling him the scope. I replaced it with a dovetail slot blank and a Lyman 66 receiver sight and never looked back. That M94 was my first centerfire, given to me by my Dad for Christmas back when I was about 14, I think, and of course I still have it!

Cheers,
Rex

The primary purpose of mounting the scope forward was to make loading easier with military surplus bolt rifles and stripper clips. Or in the case of the Winchester 94 to leave the top eject open so the rifle would function. And even Jeff Cooper said the use of optics was optional in his description of a Scout Rifle.

Coopers ideal "Scout" rifle also evolved as time went on and new developments came about. I have no doubt that if he were still alive he would have came to the conclusion that with today's rifles using a DBM and todays optics a low powered scope or dot sight mounted conventionally would work better than forward mounted optics. I know that is the conclusion I've reached.

AS usual you are wrong JMR40. The stripper clip thin was quite secondary. Go to Scout Rifles.org and learn something. Be Well, Rustyzipper.