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Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: deflave] #14830448 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
Don’t bother with the mini shells. Tried Aguila and Federal both in my 870P, no go for reliability. Not even close. Only good for singles and double barrels. And why use them in those?



Always wondered what those mini shells brought to the table.


They double the capacity of your pump gun (that typically requires an adapter) and still kill stuff at shorter "indoor" ranges.

And they remove all trace of recoil in doing so.


NO jamming issues?


Not if your gun is set up for them.

Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
Don’t bother with the mini shells. Tried Aguila and Federal both in my 870P, no go for reliability. Not even close. Only good for singles and double barrels. And why use them in those?



Always wondered what those mini shells brought to the table.


They double the capacity of your pump gun (that typically requires an adapter) and still kill stuff at shorter "indoor" ranges.

And they remove all trace of recoil in doing so.


NO jamming issues?


Not if your gun is set up for them.
.

Good to know, Thanks


Obama played Golf while 16000 people died of the swine flu in the US.
BP-B2

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: ltppowell] #14830474 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.


John Burns

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14830478 04/28/20
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Good evening BamBam,
Have not seen a good price on an MPX sense I made the mistake of not buying the MPX Noctis when Cabela's had them on sale. They were selling them for around $1,250. I've tracked a few auctions on the MPX competition, but they keep going for MSRP.

Most of what I've shot through the MPX has been the cheap full metal jacket federal. Never a problem.

Interested in shooting in a couple of the PCC matches at the club. They do not allow pistols with braces, so I'll need to buy an actual PCC if I want to play their game.

The other option is an M2 for the tactical shotgun matches. With summer arriving I don't see myself spending much time at the outdoor range. I think it hit 102 today.

Bottom line, my firearms purchases tend to track the shooting sports I'm interested in.

Last edited by 40O; 04/28/20. Reason: Tired.

"What I was saying is if my kin folk 400 years ago had guns, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Im in favor of guns and encourage everyone I know to have them because the last time we didnt have them we were abused.
Rep.Mitchell.
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: JohnBurns] #14830561 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.

Well stated. Still won't move the 590 from by the bed. BUT I can't recall grabbing it in many years. Maybe for pigs was the last time.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: JohnBurns] #14830567 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.


That's not exactly a fair comparison.

1) The shotgun is more of a specialty weapon in combat. Most individuals don't carry BOTH 5.56 and a shotgun regularly
2) Troops carry far more 5.56 ammo for their standard issue weapons, than shotgun ammo, so it stands to reason they'd quickly switch back to that which they are well stocked for
3) A house breech may lead them out a back door within minutes or seconds, where the 5.56 immediately makes more sense to have in hand

Let's turn the tables the other way. For those who have served, if you had the unfortunate situation where you breached a door to find an armed enemy, would you rather see a 5.56 or a 12 gauge in the enemies hand across the room from you?

IC-A

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: duck911] #14830634 04/28/20
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Last night I watched a movie called Standoff.
The hero had a 20 gauge single shot and only 1 shell.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: duck911] #14830946 04/28/20
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JohnBurns Offline
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Originally Posted by duck911
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.


That's not exactly a fair comparison.

1) The shotgun is more of a specialty weapon in combat. Most individuals don't carry BOTH 5.56 and a shotgun regularly
2) Troops carry far more 5.56 ammo for their standard issue weapons, than shotgun ammo, so it stands to reason they'd quickly switch back to that which they are well stocked for
3) A house breech may lead them out a back door within minutes or seconds, where the 5.56 immediately makes more sense to have in hand

Let's turn the tables the other way. For those who have served, if you had the unfortunate situation where you breached a door to find an armed enemy, would you rather see a 5.56 or a 12 gauge in the enemies hand across the room from you?



The shotty is simply not used at all in combat anymore except for blowing hinges and locks on the breach.

The 5.56 is just as deadly per shot and packs 30 shots before a simple reload of 30 more.

Bonus is much less recoil.

Youtube is full of hog hunting vids from Helis showing just how not effective a shotgun is at actually hitting and killing in a real environment.

Of course it's entirely possible to defend the homestead with 00 buckshot but real world experience has shown other choices (The 5.56mm AR) to be better.

Take your pick but I will pick the world proven best choice. wink

YMMV.


John Burns

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Oldelkhunter] #14831094 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
If you don't plan on defending against or killing an intruder why even bother carrying a gun? You typed that in an earlier post BTW.


No, I agreed that I didn’t WANT to kill anyone. The way my house is laid out if someone burst in the front door we’re gonna see each other right off, me laying on the floor.

All I would have time to do is react. Which is why the j-frame is kept close at hand.

Three barking dogs between us might buy me more time, before they burst in and after, or better, cause em to call the whole thing off.

I just realized, I gotta practice shooting laying down.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: duck911] #14831446 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by duck911
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.


That's not exactly a fair comparison.

1) The shotgun is more of a specialty weapon in combat. Most individuals don't carry BOTH 5.56 and a shotgun regularly
2) Troops carry far more 5.56 ammo for their standard issue weapons, than shotgun ammo, so it stands to reason they'd quickly switch back to that which they are well stocked for
3) A house breech may lead them out a back door within minutes or seconds, where the 5.56 immediately makes more sense to have in hand

Let's turn the tables the other way. For those who have served, if you had the unfortunate situation where you breached a door to find an armed enemy, would you rather see a 5.56 or a 12 gauge in the enemies hand across the room from you?



The breecher is not the first one in. So mute question.. the first guy in will have an M4..

Last edited by 79S; 04/28/20.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: OldGrayWolf] #14831451 04/28/20
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Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
Don’t bother with the mini shells. Tried Aguila and Federal both in my 870P, no go for reliability. Not even close. Only good for singles and double barrels. And why use them in those?



I’ve ran the Aguila mini slugs through my Winchester 1300 with no mods. Nary a bobble.

IC-B

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14831452 04/28/20
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I see so many posts saying at close range the shotgun hasn't opened up enough to be any different than a handgun. The big difference is people hit with a handgun round tend to keep coming or runaway. That's not gonna happen when they take a full load of shotgun pattern that hasn't opened up.......


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Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: deflave] #14831474 04/28/20
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When military busts into a place, they're expecting multiple opponents, possibly wearing body armor. Somewhat different than defense in your home. Handgun, AR or shotgun for home defense, I think all are going to fit different situations, like where do you live, home layout, your location in the home, time of day, number of possible opponents, number of occupants of the home and their location, your physical condition, etc. No way to really say which is "better". For my particular situation I'd probably be best served with a shotgun.

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14832084 04/29/20
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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Getting off anything more than a snap shot before the burglar disappears behind a wall, or through a doorway, or down a hall juking and sliding trying to get out of the house was the norm from what I watched.


While those who have gone in harm’s way, busting in doors in the service to our country and/or our communities deserve our thanks and respect, that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish. It’s hard for me to imagine someone breaking into my house looking for a gunfight

Quote
Caveat. Some may consider scaring the bad guys away with missed shots is a win. YMMV.


In the last thirty years, two mom and pop convenience store owners in this city have been murdered some time after the fact by gang members in the same gang as the armed robber those storekeepers shot and killed in two unrelated incidents.

Thirty plus years back a noted pistol match competitor here had to pull up and move his gun shop after masterfully over coming an armed invasion by two shotgun-armed thugs, killing one, wounding another, and shooting up the getaway vehicle.

Twenty-five years back a guy down the street had to sell his house and move after shooting and killing a punk teenage burglar. I would have to do all of that AND quit my present job.

In my circumstance, scaring off a home invader would be the second best outcome of a bad situation. The best one would be they heard them dogs barking before they bust in, and decided against it.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14832130 04/29/20
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Be sure they are within earshot when you ‘rack the slide’.

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Birdwatcher] #14832143 04/29/20
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Bird, you have been posting on my thread for days...And, now after like 3rd day, you decide to quote my OP...

Do you just get lost in the moment of the posts without looking what the source of the tread may be about?

Just curious...I know you’re an educator, Special Ed?

😎


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Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: 79S] #14832148 04/29/20
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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by duck911
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Anyone who doesn't know that a shotgun is the most effective, and safest, weapon in close quarters is ignorant or stupid.


Well the US Mil has 2 continuous decades of fighting in houses and the only thing they still use a shotgun for is breaching the door.

Shotguns are OK but the AR rules the real CQB world.


That's not exactly a fair comparison.

1) The shotgun is more of a specialty weapon in combat. Most individuals don't carry BOTH 5.56 and a shotgun regularly
2) Troops carry far more 5.56 ammo for their standard issue weapons, than shotgun ammo, so it stands to reason they'd quickly switch back to that which they are well stocked for
3) A house breech may lead them out a back door within minutes or seconds, where the 5.56 immediately makes more sense to have in hand

Let's turn the tables the other way. For those who have served, if you had the unfortunate situation where you breached a door to find an armed enemy, would you rather see a 5.56 or a 12 gauge in the enemies hand across the room from you?



The breecher is not the first one in. So mute question.. the first guy in will have an M4..


Correct, in a general sense. For us it would depend on the situation, how tight the quarters were in previous houses, etc. Just like in America, city houses were generally smaller and tighter, where farm country houses tended to be a bit bigger and more open, and that would sometimes influence what weapon was the first one in. Often times though, whomever is there and ready is the first one in after the doorway is breached, regardless of what he's carrying. A shotgun isn't always used by the breecher but there's usually one in the hands of someone on the patrol. Honestly though, with the exception of Fallujah, we'd breach maybe 1 in 50 houses that we entered. The occupants were almost always willing to let us in after the interpreter talked to them.


As far as personal self defense, like has been stated many times in this thread it's what you're comfortable with, as well as the specifics of your home that really should be the determining factor as to which weapon is "better".
For me, there's no question. Shotgun all the way.



Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: BillyGoatGruff] #14832286 04/29/20
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whelennut Offline
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Does anybody have an Ithaca Roadblocker 10 gauge.
That would be the ultimate "repel boarders" gun.
whelennut


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14832565 04/29/20
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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Bird, you have been posting on my thread for days...And, now after like 3rd day, you decide to quote my OP...

Do you just get lost in the moment of the posts without looking what the source of the tread may be about?

Just curious...I know you’re an educator, Special Ed?

😎



Lol


I was young and bashful back then.
Today,...I'd just knock on her door,..hand her the crab dope, and say, "Rub summa this on ya booger. I'll be back day after tomorrow".
-Bristoe
Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Birdwatcher] #14832648 04/29/20
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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher

In my circumstance, scaring off a home invader would be the second best outcome of a bad situation. The best one would be they heard them dogs barking before they bust in, and decided against it.


My dog won't bite. But when somebody comes up to the house he growls and barks like he'll tear your leg off.

Re: Maybe a shotgun is better for home defense... [Re: Beaver10] #14832834 04/29/20
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?? I got no prob being the village idiot but where have I posted off-topic on your thread?

It had been awhile since anyone mentioned that most of the time these punks want mostly to GET AWAY after being confronted by an armed homeowner.

Otherwise the sentiment had been expressed here that it was preferable to lawfully shoot a home invader lest they come back again better prepared to steal your stuff.

I would expect for most of us the aftermath of such a killing would lead us off into uncharted waters, probably expensive uncharted waters at the very least.

No one in my house right now besides me. If I could I would climb out a back window in the event of a home invasion rather than shoot someone over “stuff” (even if I had stuff 🙂), then I would call the Cops from a position of relative safety.

Cheaper in the long run.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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