Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns FBI 9MM:FOR THE WIMMINS....

I think a lot of people forget who the "experts" were in the late 80's.

I've never seen a more detailed or well articulated argument for why the FBI has opted to use 9mm chambered guns at this point in time. You'd have to be a subjective person to argue any of their points.

Jorge, I not 100% certain but I think that even the Secret Service has transitioned to the Glock 19 in 9mm.

I don't disagree that some 9mm pistols were insufficiently modified to accept .40 S&W, but the S&W 4006 should not be on your list. The slide and frame were beefed up, and the frame rails and recoil timing were changed.

Also, the Glock 20 gets my vote for the most kB!'d pistol. There have been a half dozen kB!'d here on the Campfire.

JOG, my mistake about the S&W 4006, I wasn't aware of how extensive the modifications were to that platform. And I learned something new about the Glock 20, I was not aware of the Kaboom issues with it. I thought most of the kaboom issueswere with the 40 S&W in the 22 & 23.

No idea, but I'm sure some government bureaucrat came up with the TOE>

I can relate to the Beretta. We use them here in 9mm and I've had to send back a BUNCH for rework because of the cracked block...

So can we have the CLiff Notes as to why the FBI transitioned (other than less recoil and weapon service life?

That would make sense overall.

How many had cracked frames?

The Cliff notes version, less recoil, better accuracy by the agents, service life of the pistol more effective ammunition and lower cost for ammunition. I have seen the paper Quantico wrote explaining the reasons for the switch but I don't have a copy of it at the moment.

Normally I would make a smart ass comment about watching a Paul Harrell video before reading the actual report, but because I love pilots I will make an exception.

The high points:

-Penetration standards are met.

-More bullets are better than less bullets.

-Data indicates the "one shot stop" theory is bullschit. Barring CNS.

-Cost.

-Deflection theories ended up being myth.

-Most barriers in vehicles can't be penetrated by a .40 or .45 any better than a 9mm.

-Overall marksmanship/scores/hit factors increase regardless of shooter skill level.

I believe that the latter versions, 3rd gen of the locking block are much more durable. I also think that in the 92 design, the locking block is a wearable/consumable item. It is easier and cheaper to replace a cracked locking block than it is to replace a cracked frame.

I don't know how many times you've been to Quantico but I don't think that's the word I'd use to describe a lot of the people involved in this type of testing in the past decade.

I'm not talking about the locking blocks.

I'm talking about the frames.

We've had them since January of 2015, give or take. We have an inventory of 90. So far, I've sent nine back and have three more to send. They do turn them around pretty fast.

Agreed that you probably aren't going to wear a 4006 down.

Probably.

Nine cracked 92 frames in five years seems a wee bit high.

There is a lot of truth in this I believe. 40 got stuffed into guns/frames that were not originally designed to handle it long term. Later designs, say such as the M&P seem to handle 40 easily. It’s entirely likely that earlier designs may hold the pressure enough to be safe to fire, but show wear faster on some parts.

Mark in GA

I lived in Quantico for a while at the Marine Air Station barracks ( I was commuting to the Pentagon) Good friend of mine was at the Amphib warfare school and also a Scout Sniper. Taught me a LOT about long range shooting as well as side arms. And yes we also got to play over on the FBI side. I'm no pistolero, but I did shoot with them and the NYPD Swat folks and of course here. While I am SURE you and many others here have FAR more trigger time than me, I know enough to make informed decisions and form opinions.

As to the videos, have/did you watch it or any of his other videos? I think he is extremely credible. Thanks for the Cliff notes, but basically the video's point was the 9mm with modern stuff was, for all practical purposes, the equal of the 40, so why change? Blue provided the missing factors in the equation of cost and recoil (wimmins). Number of rounds was to me a wash (15 v 17)?

I think his videos suck.