Most of my life I have been a 12 ga. shooter.. Now the old pump is getting a bit heavy.. I mostly hunt some sage grouse, and ringnecks... Mostly in the 12 I screwed in a modified choke and let it go at that.. But around 2000 I bought my wife a 20 ga. 870.. I still used the 12.. Then I grew tired of being asked where are my shells as we pulled in a place to hunt.. So I bought a second 20 for myself.. If I went alone, I went back to the 12, her hunting ended in 2006.. And the 20's have sat in the gun case since then.. Now I would like to give them a whirl this fall.. I was going to put in the mod. choke and have at it, but I also have an improved mod.. I was thinking that may be the way to go since I will be mostly shooting oz loads, with 1 1/4 3" for back up.. Those with experience what is your choice.. My dogs are goldens so I am not shooting over pointing dogs.. Thanks..
Unless conditions drive more choke (spooky birds on a windy day, late season noisy crusted snow, or other stuff making birds get up further out), stay with the modified. It is a very flexible choke - you give up very little to an IC, yet it significantly improves longer range patterns. I would rather see you go to premium shells with high antimony very hard shot.
Well, according to my chart the optimum range for modified is 32.5 yds and 35 yds for improved modified, so you'll certainly get a feel as you hunt with both. I like my 20's and the tightest choke I have is modified.
That chart is worth about what you paid for it. With good ammo in the hands of a good shot, the range of a modified choked 20 gauge will shock most people. Well beyond what the chart says.
My preferred choke for upland birds, which for me means pheasants and quail, is light mod. Gauge doesn’t make much difference in my selection though I only own 10,12,16, and 20 bores.
My 20 is a fixed Mod that actually patterns more like a full and it’s too much. When I’m on it crushes them and will really tear a bird up inside of 20 yards if they’re centered. When I’m not on I have to shoot some of them twice due to hitting them with the fringe of the pattern.
That chart is worth about what you paid for it. With good ammo in the hands of a good shot, the range of a modified choked 20 gauge will shock most people. Well beyond what the chart says.
Good to know and thankful the chart cost me nothing. So, what chart for chokes is better ?
Fact is chokes mean little if one points well....Exception being the extremes of cylinder and full....And if we don't point well they mean little again....place the object in the center of the pattern, and IC will knock Pheasant sized Birds out of the sky further than most us should be shooting at game.....The ballistic people say it takes around 8 pellets of the proper size in the vitals to kill cleanly....an IC will do that a long way out if the target is centered.....That being said, some of the people in the know think Modified is the best all around upland choke.....
My preferred choke for upland birds, which for me means pheasants and quail, is light mod. Gauge doesn’t make much difference in my selection though I only own 10,12,16, and 20 bores.
My 20 is a fixed Mod that actually patterns more like a full and it’s too much. When I’m on it crushes them and will really tear a bird up inside of 20 yards if they’re centered. When I’m not on I have to shoot some of them twice due to hitting them with the fringe of the pattern.
When one isn't on....percentage wise, open chokes have more crippling fringe than tight.....
That chart is worth about what you paid for it. With good ammo in the hands of a good shot, the range of a modified choked 20 gauge will shock most people. Well beyond what the chart says.
Good to know and thankful the chart cost me nothing. So, what chart for chokes is better ?
No chart will give much light here, as there are too many variables, as battue alludes above. With cheap bargain basement shells, no choke will adequately compensate in terms of pattern performance.
Choke selection goes hand in glove with pattern performance, and that is the real measure of a choke/ammo combination. For the purposes of this discussion, modified is a good place to start, but you really want to know what the choke does in performance terms. Some factory chokes are also notoriously mismarked - have both constrictions and actually performance that are way off. Browning screw in chokes have this reputation, for example. It is also very common for a gun to prefer a particular load. So there is no hard and fast rule here.
I have a Benelli Montefeltro 12 ga., for example, whose factory chokes perform about one choke tighter than they are marked; it’s modified choke throws almost full choke patterns with all of the ammo I have tried in it.
Fact is chokes mean little if one points well....Exception being the extremes of cylinder and full....And if we don't point well they mean little again....
Fact.
I don't hunt upland much or at all, anymore. But used to LIVE for pheasant over my pointing dogs. At that time, I ran 2 3/4" 12 gauge imp. cyl. with #7 1/2 shot as most shots were at my leisure......whatever yardage I chose to pull the trigger. I chose I.C. only for minimizing meat damage. On a rare (LOL !!) occasion that I happened to miss the first shot..........follow-ups at distance were very effective so long as I pointed well.
Many thousands of rounds shot at sporting clays ranges proved to me that a skeet-choked barrel, in a well-fitting shotgun, is capable of solid hits at ranges that would surprise most casual bird hunters. And, clay targets are much smaller than most upland birds. Most of my upland hunting nowadays is for doves, chukar, and pheasants, wild and pen-raised, with my pointing Lab and a 28 ga., loaded up with 7/8 oz. of plated 7.5 shot, and shot thru a Briley skeet choke. The only reason I see for more choke constriction is for wild-flushing birds, some of which probably shouldn't be shot at anyway.
I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
On upland Birds, with take what comes opportunities, most above average shooters will start stinking it up really bad once things get much past 30-35 yards....a range were IC excels.....for the below average shooter it will be less.....
Reality is, it takes a well tuned shooter to be able to consistently use the potential of a Modified.....Many today, certainly not all, base chokes on what they read or their experience with clays....difference being that with Birds, chips don't count....
My experience tells me we all cripple more birds than we realize and the further out they are the more we do so.....Who has the eyes to be able to see a Bird take a fringe pellet in the guts at 40 plus yards., and if it flies off there is usually little we can do about it....That Bird will probably die from a ruptured gut.....
Perhaps we should worry more about our skill level and range estimation rather than fussing over choke selection?????
I shoot a lot of sporting clays, but pass on almost all shots in the field that are much beyond 30 yards....
On upland Birds, with take what comes opportunities, most above average shooters will start stinking it up really bad once things get much past 30-35 yards....a range were IC excels.....for the below average shooter it will be less.....
Reality is, it takes a well tuned shooter to be able to consistently use the potential of a Modified.....Many today, certainly not all, base chokes on what they read or their experience with clays....difference being that with Birds, chips don't count....
My experience tells me we all cripple more birds than we realize and the further out they are the more we do so.....Who has the eyes to be able to see a Bird take a pellet in the guts at 40 plus yards., and if it flies off there is usually little we can do about it....That Bird will probably die from a ruptured gut.....
Perhaps we should worry more about our skill level and range estimation rather than fussing over choke selection?????
I shoot a lot of sporting clays, but pass on almost all shots in the field that are much beyond 30 yards....
I agree. I don't shoot many clay targets but I shoot a lot of wild pigeons for this I use extra full 80%. The fact is most people don't pattern thier guns and in my opinion leads to a lot of cripples. Don't rely on what's stamped on your barrel or choke tube. A lot of guns don't shoot to POA either . Changes in ammo can have a quite different results as well. I always say to people you meticulously sight in your deer rifle why is your shotgun different?
We kind of agree....Shooting wild Pigeons is a great teacher when it comes to using a shotgun...POA and POI is really important...Having a good idea of what your choke throws is also important...
One you have that that down, I don't care much for patterning. If it its is working then I care little about what the paper says...Good shotgunning vs good rifle shooting are two different skill sets and it goes back to the old saying of you don't aim a shotgun. The vast majority of the time with rifles you are shooting a stationary target....Not so with Birds....
For southern bobwhite, I/C in the the lower barrel and L/M or M in the upper. For a single barrel gun, L/M or I/C, but you must pattern it. Different shells and different chokes shoot varying patterns. For quail, I shoot Winchester AA 7/8 oz #8's.
For pheasant, M or I/M. Again, pattern it with the ammunition you intend to shoot. 1oz Fiocchi #5's work well in my 20 ga 391 on pheasant.
When I speak of performance, I am not talking about using a pattern plate. As Anthony mentions, performance equates to how the combination hits clays and/or birds. I am even more skeptical of the plate than he is; I’ve never seen anyone who could “not aim” at the plate. I do agree that it is useful for checking that the barrels are regulated and very roughly a sense of how tight or loose the pattern is, but that’s it.
As to drop - 50/50, 60/40, 80/20 - the set up again should be in relation to where the gun shoots against a flying target, as people see the target/gun relationship (a mostly subconscious thing) differently. For example, a number of the pros on the sporting clays circuit have guns set up at 100/0, and crush targets with that arrangement.
Same idea with respect to choke and load - proof in the pudding (performance on target/bird), not on the plate.
To add something additional to the above....I’ve also seen the good to best, take a shell from a different manufacturer and merrily go on....crushing targets along the way without changing chokes....or seeing what the plate says.
Addition: Im sure they have a preference, but preference and adaptation can change quickly if someone else is willing to pay some of the bills.
