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I am talking only about OICs. Nothing else. Arguing more than one point in a discussion confuses most readers.

An OIC was used by a minority government to avoid debate and pass legislation.

East vs. West has nothing to do with the latest gun ban.


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Steve Redgwell
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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
I am talking only about OICs. Nothing else. Arguing more than one point in a discussion confuses most readers.

An OIC was used by a minority government to avoid debate and pass legislation.

East vs. West has nothing to do with the latest gun ban.

Yes, the use of an OIC in this case is egregious.

You're free to talk about whatever you want, but fortunately the rest of us are also free to discuss any and all factors that we feel are involved with this latest gun ban, and that includes the fact that the East put Trudeau in a position to do so in the first place.

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That's why you remain incapable of solving problems. You do not contribute. You only blame. You do not participate. You whine.

The fact that the Liberals used OICs in this manner is hardly the East's fault. Contribute, don't whine. Stay on message. Help.

Going forward, the various organizations will question the actions of the govt and attempt to affect change.

Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.


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So it was pushed through. I do wonder about where the support for this brazen move is rooted.
My guess it is in the eastern part of Canada and large urban centers. Firearm violence is not even in the discussion out this way- it is a non issue.
I will add , the tactical stuff just looks silly to me but the statistics explain alot- law abiding users are not the problem in Canada
The OIC option must stopped, or it will lead to more horrific laws,at least it is under examination now.
The federal Liberal party is not a national party, and Westerners have zero faith in it. This federal party seems to constantly undermine our strong held beliefs.
Sometimes I believe the continent should be split North to south, instead of east to west. Excluding the left coast.

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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
That's why you remain incapable of solving problems. You do not contribute. You only blame. You do not participate. You whine.

The fact that the Liberals used OICs in this manner is hardly the East's fault. Contribute, don't whine. Stay on message. Help.

Going forward, the various organizations will question the actions of the govt and attempt to affect change.

Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.

Ok, OIC=bad.....

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Originally Posted by 673
Ok, OIC=bad.....


Yes.


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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
There cannot be a vote of no-confidence because the government used an OIC. A no-confidence vote comes after a government proposes legislation, but the majority of MPs vote against it. A no-confidence vote is called, and if the majority votes "no-confidence", the government is dissolved and an election is called.


You are correct on there cannot be a vote on the OIC but there can be a vote on other issues which the opposition could tie back to the OIC. This required participation and negotiation with other parties.

If the NDP and Bloc were against the OIC they could easily partner with the conservatives on a separate legislation item or bring forward their own motion and vote on non-confidence. Look at the Mark Norman review -- one Bloc member voted to block the review and it was dead.

The use of an OIC was a slimy move and now with the bought press -- Global / CBC the narrative is being spun the way the Liberals want.

I do agree that this is not East vs West but this initiative was driven out of the East and was Socks response to the shootings in Toronto where as an election promise he said there would be better gun control targeting the voters in the greater Ontario region. It is also standard Liberal fare to divide groups --- recreational target shooter bad / hunters you are fine ---- now start the fight internally within those groups with public perception against the scary target shooters.





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I'm sure every criminal has taken the firearms course, has a Possession and Aquistion certificate and properly stores thier firearms before the new OIC. Trudeau senior devided the country. Trudeau junior is doing the same. Our flustration in the west is certainly justified.

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I think it is a part of a culture war and this is an East vs West issue. As long as we have a people who will vote for the likes of Trudeau this sort of thing will happen. Best solution would be to separate from a group who run rough shod over us culturally and economically with zero regard for us. This decision like the closure of Oil will be supported...Why...we are not respected, by not just Trudeau but by the majority of our fellow citizens in Eastern Canada. I read the polls....unwinnable with the percentage of sheep ..i respect Steve Redgwell but he lives in a nest of vipers.

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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
That's why you remain incapable of solving problems. You do not contribute. You only blame. You do not participate. You whine.

The fact that the Liberals used OICs in this manner is hardly the East's fault. Contribute, don't whine. Stay on message. Help.

Going forward, the various organizations will question the actions of the govt and attempt to affect change.

Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.

What a cowardly edit of willful ignorance. What happened to all these comments being directed toward the West in general? Now all of a sudden they are sneakily directed towards me personally. I started off with a respectful tone toward you, and as usual you are the arrogant, self-deluded source of conflict. You certainly are a Legend in your own mind, but nobody else’s. You are NOT some dictator that decides which issues are important and which ones are not. The OIC is a big problem, but to some of us there exists another problem that is even bigger, and has been a problem for far longer than Trudeau Jr’s use of the OIC: the abusive relationship between Eastern Canada and Western Canada.

It seems as though I have voted in every federal election since I came of legal age decades ago. In the last couple of months I have written a half-dozen handwritten letters to government officials and sent them by snail mail. In the past few weeks I have signed some official petitions on this topic. I am a paying member of the CCFR and CSSA. Alberta ALWAYS contributes more than it receives, and has fundamentally disproportionate representation in Ottawa. I have not blamed anyone in this thread. I have simply pointed out a common Western sentiment, and despite your cowardly ignorance of the issue, it is real and widespread in the West. This gun ban only aggravates a pre-existing and growing sentiment of enmity between the cultural values of the East and the West. A sentiment of separation. THAT is the bigger message here, because frankly you and other self-important, conceited easterners are what we want to separate from. The OIC problem is another issue, and that’ll be up to you to solve once Trudeau is the leader of your beloved Eastern Canada. Western Canada will be able to write legislation that is free from tyrannical backdoor instruments like the OIC, in the first place. Until that happens, I will continue to be vocal and fight against the Liberal agenda of disarming the citizenry, and particularly the use of undemocratic means (like the OIC) to accomplish that goal. But the momentum for separation is growing and is fuelled by things like gun bans, whether you like it or not.

It’s unproductive to go back and forth with you, now that you’ve chosen to turn this discussion between us into a personal conflict, so as usual you won’t be able to stop yourself from having the last word. Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by saskfox
Trudeau senior devided the country. Trudeau junior is doing the same. Our flustration in the west is certainly justified.

It started with John A. McDonald, but Trudeau Sr. certainly aggravated the issue as nobody before him, and his son continues the tradition.

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Originally Posted by North61
I think it is a part of a culture war and this is an East vs West issue. As long as we have a people who will vote for the likes of Trudeau this sort of thing will happen. Best solution would be to separate from a group who run rough shod over us culturally and economically with zero regard for us. This decision like the closure of Oil will be supported...Why...we are not respected, by not just Trudeau but by the majority of our fellow citizens in Eastern Canada. I read the polls....unwinnable with the percentage of sheep.

Yep

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The solution to this is to elect a Conservative government. It WILL eventually happen. Once achieved, a Conservative PM can destroy Trudeau’s OIC with the stroke of a pen.
On the other hand, that would still be just a temporary solution as, just like in the U.S., governments tend to change every few years, so it’s a never ending flip flop of agendas.
IMO, the best long term solution for the West would be separation - from the Ontario/Manitoba border westward. Not only for our gun rights but for our oil production and generally conservative beliefs and way of life as well. Eastern gun owners and other right leaning Easterners would be welcome to move here - all others need not apply.


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Originally Posted by Bobber257
The solution to this is to elect a Conservative government. It WILL eventually happen. Once achieved, a Conservative PM can destroy Trudeau’s OIC with the stroke of a pen.
On the other hand, that would still be just a temporary solution as, just like in the U.S., governments tend to change every few years, so it’s a never ending flip flop of agendas.
IMO, the best long term solution for the West would be separation - from the Ontario/Manitoba border westward. Not only for our gun rights but for our oil production and generally conservative beliefs and way of life as well. Eastern gun owners and other right leaning Easterners would be welcome to move here - all others need not apply.

Exactly.

Trudeau’s repeal of every possible piece of Conservative legislation that came from the Harper government just illustrates the flip-flop problem.

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The United States has a much better system of government than we do. Once a party is elected with a majority government it's basically a dictatorship. The Senate is a joke. Separation would be great but likely will never happen.

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There should be an Electoral College in Canada so as to guarantee adequate representation from all provinces, rather than have the results skewed in favor of the most populous cities.

I believe someone mentioned to me once that once the results from QC & ON are counted, it doesn't matter what other provinces voted for.


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Originally Posted by ofelas
There should be an Electoral College in Canada so as to guarantee adequate representation from all provinces, rather than have the results skewed in favor of the most populous cities.

I believe someone mentioned to me once that once the results from QC & ON are counted, it doesn't matter what other provinces voted for.

That's true

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Like England lording it over Scotland, Wales & Ireland.

Same [bleep], different century.


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Originally Posted by saskfox
Originally Posted by ofelas
There should be an Electoral College in Canada so as to guarantee adequate representation from all provinces, rather than have the results skewed in favor of the most populous cities.

I believe someone mentioned to me once that once the results from QC & ON are counted, it doesn't matter what other provinces voted for.

That's true


A U.S. style Electoral College could be a workable solution. However, we would first need to elect a majority Conservative government to initiate the idea. The Liberals would never agree to a concept that doesn’t give them ultimate goverence.


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
That's why you remain incapable of solving problems. You do not contribute. You only blame. You do not participate. You whine.

The fact that the Liberals used OICs in this manner is hardly the East's fault. Contribute, don't whine. Stay on message. Help.

Going forward, the various organizations will question the actions of the govt and attempt to affect change.

Lead. Follow. Or get out of the way.

What a cowardly edit of willful ignorance. What happened to all these comments being directed toward the West in general? Now all of a sudden they are sneakily directed towards me personally. I started off with a respectful tone toward you, and as usual you are the arrogant, self-deluded source of conflict. You certainly are a Legend in your own mind, but nobody else’s. You are NOT some dictator that decides which issues are important and which ones are not. The OIC is a big problem, but to some of us there exists another problem that is even bigger, and has been a problem for far longer than Trudeau Jr’s use of the OIC: the abusive relationship between Eastern Canada and Western Canada.

It seems as though I have voted in every federal election since I came of legal age decades ago. In the last couple of months I have written a half-dozen handwritten letters to government officials and sent them by snail mail. In the past few weeks I have signed some official petitions on this topic. I am a paying member of the CCFR and CSSA. Alberta ALWAYS contributes more than it receives, and has fundamentally disproportionate representation in Ottawa. I have not blamed anyone in this thread. I have simply pointed out a common Western sentiment, and despite your cowardly ignorance of the issue, it is real and widespread in the West. This gun ban only aggravates a pre-existing and growing sentiment of enmity between the cultural values of the East and the West. A sentiment of separation. THAT is the bigger message here, because frankly you and other self-important, conceited easterners are what we want to separate from. The OIC problem is another issue, and that’ll be up to you to solve once Trudeau is the leader of your beloved Eastern Canada. Western Canada will be able to write legislation that is free from tyrannical backdoor instruments like the OIC, in the first place. Until that happens, I will continue to be vocal and fight against the Liberal agenda of disarming the citizenry, and particularly the use of undemocratic means (like the OIC) to accomplish that goal. But the momentum for separation is growing and is fuelled by things like gun bans, whether you like it or not.

It’s unproductive to go back and forth with you, now that you’ve chosen to turn this discussion between us into a personal conflict, so as usual you won’t be able to stop yourself from having the last word. Enjoy.



Well said and this totally the fault of the east voting for this agenda.

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