Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "THE PURSUIT OF PERFECTION"

Hi Guys:

I want to thank John Barsness (aka Mule Deer) for his exclusive Campfire article, "The Pursuit of Perfection," which can be found on our new Home Page.

Please use this thread to ask John questions about the article, and again, thanks very much to John and to the Campfire.

Rick

Thanks again to John and Rick for writing and posting another fine article. Most of us here are guilty as charged!

John, excellent article. Described my rifle loonie journey to a t. How my father and grandfather ever could hunt with just one rifle for most of their hunting career I'll never know. For a PA deer hunter that never hardly has a chance to kill a deer over 70 yards in the woods, why would I need the arsenal that I have? Thanks for the explanation of my gun disorder! I doubt there is hope for me!

Excellent, excellent article - lots of common sense.

Agreed on the common sense part. Just a little common sense would have saved me a lot of money and aggravation over the years. A couple of my formerly 'perfect' rifles recently went to my local FFL for transfer to friends. I could have sold them and tried for another perfect rifle but giving them away to good friends means I'm not tempted by the spare cash to pursue equally unlikely dreams of the ideal rifle. I actually probably saved money.

Ward,

It seems you have a lot of common sense, which isn't especially common among rifle loonies!

Good job and a lot of truth there John.

Keep up the good work.

John,
You are a very gracious fellow for not mentioning me by name in connection with my many attempts to build the ever more perfect mountain rifle in 270 Win. However, I just found a perfectly laid out true French walnut blank. It has the reddish smokey look. If only I could get Jerry to build just one more....
Best to you and your publisher,
Rick

Great write up.

Glad you made it out alive after the PF'er use on the bear JB.. That's a pretty danged risky adventure!

John;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust that this finds you and Eileen well.

Once again I very much enjoyed your thoughts on our lifelong affliction. If nothing else, it does my heart good to know I'm not alone, you know?

Like you, as I've aged there seems to be less pressing need to try something new or build "another one", though I confess that I've enjoyed modifying stocks and tweaking other folks' rifles for them now more than before. Perhaps because I've gone down a few paths myself and read a whole lot on the subject it's easier for me to do that for others now.

While I'm not trying to blow smoke up your kilt here John, I can't tell you how many times I've either pulled out your article on stock fit or quoted it while explaining to a rifle's owner why I believe the modification he's wanting on a stock will or won't work.

Speaking personally, I've wandered in a direction that I hadn't even considered previously - but it's sorta full circle in many ways I suppose.

When the beer virus shutdown coincided with my first attempt at being retired, I began to root through the gun parts in the garage to see if I could complete some projects.

Other than being ashamed to admit that there were enough parts and unfinished projects that there's now 2 functional .30-06 rifles where there was just a military surplus rifle which had been given to me with the usual, "it don't work" and some pieces all over, I've returned to my first love in shooting which is pellet rifles. In the mess that was my shop, I found several pellet guns and now there's two which function.

Perhaps as a fellow glasses wearer I'll pick your brain as to which power of glasses is best for open sights John, but anyway I've got a Brno made Slavia and a British Webley & Scott both in .177. I hung a couple gongs up on the property and had my shooting buddy bring some "fancy" made in Germany pellets down to try.

Anyway sir, all that to say I very much enjoyed your article and that's where this rifle loonie is currently in my lifetime pilgrimage as a firearm tinkerer.

All the best to you and Eileen sir. Stay well.

Dwayne

Hi Dwayne,

And top of the morning to you, too! Mostly Eileen and I have been working, but have been doing that together in the same house for over 35 years, so aside from our outside social life, not much has changed! I supposedly semi-retired last year, but somehow it hasn't worked out quite that way....

Glad you enjoyed the article--and have gotten use out of the stock-fit suggestions. Mostly I stole stuff from various professional gunsmiths--or those professional enough to actually make stocks fit their customers. Some do not.

I've been wearing progressive bifocals for about 20 years now. Have found that if I tilt my head just so, open sights can be made to come into pretty good focus, at least enough for me to hit anything I'm going to shoot at with open sights.

John

John, at fit of common sense doesn't mean I won't do something totally irrational next week. I have, however, realized that I am at an age where the accumulation of rifles, boats, fishing gear and assorted toys exceed the number of years I have left to use them. I'm planning on at least another fifteen years on this planet which would push me past eighty but the big concern came from my doc who pointed me at literature stating the average healthy life expectancy for American males is sixty-eight. Healthy just means no major health crises and the ability to continue with your normal activities. I really want to be able to hunt and fish for a long time but that article got to me because I turn sixty-six soon. The perfect rifle doesn't mean much if I can't use its capabilities.

Chuckling as I read the article today. Late last year I declared to the 'hunting gaggle' that I'm a part of that in 2020 I'd be hunting, for the first time since forever, with a factory rifle and feeding it factory ammunition. Why? Just 'cause.

Horrors of horrors, some declared, as if I'd said Galileo got it all wrong and in fact the earth is the center of the universe. Actually, as I suspect, they worried I'd discover that there are some pretty amazing factory firesticks available today that launch some pretty impressive factory ammo.

Perfection? I dunno yet, but so far I've been impressed how this little project is giving my custom hunting rifles a run for the money...

Oh, and MD - I finally threw in the towel on my declining scores and blaming them on my progressive bifocals about a decade ago. Went and got my eyes lazed and now I can confidently blame my scores on bad barrels...

Pud

Good article

Good read! I’m guilty of a large portion there.

John,
If you keep making that much sense, your rifle looney card will get taken away!

i just read this article and yes it was excellent to read and something to think about . myself: about 15 years ago I kinda bonded with my Ruger #1 -257 Weatherby Mag. for deer especially for Bigger Whitetail and Mule deer bucks this rifle just gets the job done close and far away for me ,but i still buy rifles to collect,reload for and shoot. Mule Deer thanks for posting another great article to read,Pete53

We started a Rifle Loonies Anonymous group. It devolved first into a swap meet then a race to build the perfect .280AI.

Great article John, I enjoyed it very much. Thank you.

Enjoyed the read, and the ever so perfect doses of sarcasm sprinkled throughout. Good Job!

On a finer point, it's an interesting corollary to some thoughts I've had for some time. We humans must have 'beliefs'. I'm not referring to religion here; I mean all manner of constructed mental positions on every topic imaginable. Those beliefs help us interpret and navigate the metaphysical world. The rub, as you refer on the whole in your article, is this; what does one do with a construct belief that gets tested, and turns out to be false, or, less than perfect? If that particular belief was crucial to your view of the world, which is another subject entirely, you'd likely employ one of you biases', and toss the results, thereby maintaining a false belief because it's necessary to the undergirding of the meta belief system that constitutes...you. Your ears can tell when this happens because you'll likely hear something like, "well...that's my opinion...", or, "...I'm entitled to my point of view...".

In fact, being open to having a belief tested, and having the power to alter your belief based on those results...is part of your belief system.

Anyway - I say all this in support of your own pursuit of that which is most true. Again, good job.

Sniggly,

Thanks for your comments!

One thing I noticed fairly recently about rifle loonies (which probably also applies to many other belief systems) is quite a few settle on the "perfect" rifle, cartridge, scope, bullet, etc. around age 35-40. This occurs after they've had enough experience to try a few things, and maybe (or maybe not) get over their older relatives' opinions on the subject. Sometime in their 40s--and especially in their 50s--they start talking about all the useless new rifles, cartridges, scopes, bullets, etc.--and often started buying essentially the same rifle over and over again.

Of course, other rifle loonies continue to expand their interests throughout their lifetime. Which might be another essential definition of at least a certain subspecies of rifle loony!

Loons can differ in so many ways. There’s rich loons that collect a specific type of firearm, from a specific maker. There’s loons who are also well healed in financial funds who buy whatever catches their eye, or is supposed to be the new hot thing.

Others like odd or relic type firearms that may appear as junk to some, but the history of the weapon is what fascinates the buyer.

There’s also the “Never let a good deal go bye-bye” loony who has a collection of mostly new in the box production model firearms that are purchased because the price point couldn’t be passed up.

And, then there’s the custom build lunatic who enjoys putting different parts together from several manufacturers in hope of creating the perfect firearm - of course, several custom builds are needed to fit each specific hunt, game animal, or stunt shooting situation.

The reasons for each loon might be different, but they all share the joy in the buying of firearms.

😎

Great article John, you know many of us very well!

My problem with the article is that by piercing the veil of artifice and contrived fact, compounded by a sense of logic, as well as a sprinkling of self-deprecating humor, JB has pretty much upended the rationale for my next project: a CRF 9.3X62. I may have to go PF.

Blu_Cs,

Now that's funny! (But I have known more than one African PH who used a PF rifle for backing up clients on dangerous game....)

Ou

Ouch! Another nail in the coffin of plan A!

Funny you mention such; my good bud’s PH in Zim packed a .416 Rem push feed M-70. He liked my friend’s big Ruger RMS .416 Rigby, just said he thought it was a bit heavy. Guess he figured he’d pack his rifle more than he’d shoot it.

Guess that PH wasn’t a Fire contributor, didn’t realize how uncool he really was.

DF

Africans often don't, despite the wonders of the Internet.....

I enjoyed the article as well, MD! Thanks.

The talk of push feed rifles used by PHs in Africa reminded me of my PH in Zim who used a PF M70 in .416 Rem as well. We were walking through the tall grass tracking buffalo, me right behind him. He had a sling on his rifle and was carrying it on his shoulder. I was thinking, "I sure hope we don't accidentally run into a buff while we're in this stuff." At just that moment, I start to see pieces of his rifle falling off as we're walking. I hollered for him to stop and we realized that the action screws in his rifle had fallen out and the floor plate then popped off with the cartridges tumbling out in turn. Fortunately for him, the rear action screw was still attached, so that is all he lost. We spent the next 15 minutes or so looking for his action screw on the ground. It showed me just how much he paid attention to his rifle, not realizing things were loose and ready to fall apart. We never did find that action screw. He swapped out that rifle for .458 that he had for the rest of the hunt. I sent him some action screws when I got back to the States.

I"m thinking, for large, ferocious Eastern Montana prairie dogs.....wait for it......the .29 Hornet. I'll put it up in a pre-64 M70 action so I have controlled round feed if charged.

That was a good read for this old grey haired guy MD, thanks for writing it. As I have stated before, all of my mediocre hunting career has taken place here in Alaska for about 55 years and most of that has been moose, caribou, and a few bears. After being brain washed by Keith and Hagel I had done almost all of my shooting with the .338 and 250 grain Partitions and the 30-06 and 200 grain Partitions. I recovered three of the 250 grain Partitions and none of the weighed over 179 grains, two of them were from moose and one from a black bear. I never recovered a 200 grain Partition from the 30-06, since both bullets killed so well I have to assume they all performed well.

In the late 80's I did what many do, I read an article by a gun writer and switched to the Barnes X bullets in the .338 and 30-06 and have not used a Partition since then. I aslo went from a 250 grain X to a 225 grain TTSX in the .338 and 175 grain LRX and 168 grain TTSX bullets in my two 30-06 rifles. Every thing falls over dead, like they did long ago with the wonderful Partitions that my Dad used in his old Mod. 70 .264 Win. Mag. and many of the old Alaskan guides I talked to used.

I never saw a need to use other cartridges for my hunting or any rifle that was not some variation or close relative of a Mauser. But when I put my "dream rifle" together about 25 years ago it was based on a Bansner's stocked Mod. 70 "Stainless Classic" .338 Win. and it is still my "go to" rifle, or my old Mod. 70 Featherweight 30-06. Other then the .338 I have been a blue steel and walnut guy.

A couple of years ago I broke down and bought a Tikka T3X Superlite in 6.5 Creedmoor. My justification was a rifle for the grand kids to use on moose, caribou and bears. I put a SWFA 3-9 HD on it and told them they should learn the mil system, even though I never used it for any of my hunting. LOL I have grown fond of the rifle and the caliber and I remember that my Dad only used the .264 Winny and 140 grain Partitions for all of his Alaskan hunting and his western hunting prior to moving to Alaska in 1965. Before the .264 he used his Mod. 99 in .300 Savage.

Now I find my self wanting to hunt with my lever action rifles and peep sights. My latest project is a .348 Improved on a new Mirkoru Winchester 71, hopefully the gun smith will have it done soon. If I can shoot a moose or big brown bear with it or my Marlin 45-70, I will have finally reached the pinnacle of my hunting career. LOL

What do I want for now, a Tikka T3X Superlite in .223 and a long slide Dan wesson 10mm, then I will finally be happy and content and can work on my wife's "honey do list".

Good and rational analysis John, thanks!

One minor suggestion? Be looking for the .10 Hornet. A.I. It runs circles around its big bore cousins.

Loony Dan

It will be Ackley improved and dubbed the. 10 murder hornet.

If its Ackley improved it should be dubbed the. 10 murder hornet.

There was a guy on one of the forums it might have been this one where someone had a sig line that said have you cycled your push feed upside down lately? One day he posted that he'd cycled one of his push feed rifles upside down and it didn't miss a beat. Personally I've never needed to do that.

Great one, John! We're lucky to have you here dishing out common sense. You help keep us loonies "grounded".

Didn't Finn Aagaard use a push feed .458? I'll never hunt Africa, but that woukd be good enough for me, were I to go.

Finn may have, I think he would of been fine with a single shot rife with a broken extractor and a pocket knife. I believe Harry Selby went to a push feed Mod. 70 in .458 while waiting fo a barrel job on his .416 Rigby to be completed. I think it worked so well for him he stayed with it. But, this is all stuff I believe I read so who knows, right?

1Akshooter,

You're correct about Finn and Selby--both used PF .458s for a while. Finn's major comment is it worked fine as long as he remembered to keep the face of the bolt clean, and he didn't have to be as careful with his Mauser-actioned .458. Of course, the 98 Mauser action was designed for battlefield use, the reason it's so tolerant of some extra grime--and why so many hunters still prefer 98s for serious hunting.

John your article reminds me of the Vince Lombardi quote.....”Gentlemen we will chase perfection and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all along that we will never attain it but along the way we will catch excellence” (something like that anyway) - which indeed you have done!

For myself I have always wondered if I only would have stayed with my Remington Model 700 ADL in .270 Winchester (influenced by Mr. O’Connor) that I received as a Christmas gift in 1973 at the ripe old age of 10.......because I was relentless in hounding my widowed mother that I had to have a centerfire rifle (that I couldn’t use legally to hunt deer for another 2 years🥴 - God bless that woman!) how many more hunts I could have taken??! - or my Remington 541S .22 or my Ithaca Model 37 .12 gauge.

However, in the “pursuit of perfection” I like to think that I learned a lot along the way......and that way has exposed me to some of the greatest gun artisans, gun makers, competitive shooters, writers and just all around gun loonies (many right here at the Campfire) in existence. I have accumulated way to many firearms but my fascination of firearms and their form and function have lead me down a path that I have no regrets of and will likely continue until the final day.

Thanks for the great writing - it’s always a pleasure to read your thoughts on many topics!

PennDog

Great read, do pretty much all my hunting with a VZ-24 in 8x57 and my trusty 10/22 carbine...both with 4x38 Weavers mounted. Started with an 8x57 and irons...fiddled around with a few other rifles and cartridges(still have a few), ...none of them killed anything any deaded than the old 8x57.

John, I've complimented your writing before and this is another opportunity for me to thank you for the entertainment, the factoids, the opinions...

And also it give me a chance to mention that I find your writing style -- effective grammar, useful punctuation -- to often be way more betterer than many of the other guys out there. Many are equally entertaining and so forth, but few use the language quite as well as you do.

I remember being out west on a few javelina hunts almost 30 years ago where I may have mentioned around the campfire that it was beginning to seem to me anything .223 or bigger would prob'ly work fine. The old salts just grinned; the new guys almost choked on their... er... coffee... or whatever it was in their mug at the time. I was mostly using handguns for hunting back then; didn't seem to need any special cartridge since that was more about sighting issues than anything else.

(Oh, and most of my rifles are family-pass-downs, including a dreaded PF in .338 WM, a .348 M71 with <gasp!> iron sights, and a .300 Savage M99 that is obviously less effective -- by definition -- than a .308 or a .30-'06.)

Cheers, -Chris

Nice article John! I think everyone appreciated the way you sprinkled the humor all the way through because if not some of us would probably be crying.

Like many here I have done the custom route, the CRF craze, the SS and synthetic thing, the wood and SS fad, the single shot show, the WSM, WSSM, RUM and SAUM adventure and don't get me started on the scope thing.

I now like to purchase older rifles for their historical past but I only want ones that are all original and they are getting harder to come by thank goodness!

Thanks, guys!

My latest over-obsession is drillings. After trying a couple, finally bought one that pretty much turned out to be perfect for my needs a decade ago, and have hunted it with perfect satisfaction since. But somehow, over the past couple of years, two more have shown up in the safe....

John,

How much of that looniness is just a consequence of most deer hunters being crazy to one degree or another? Since I live in Illinois I don't know many elk/moose/bear hunters, but deer hunters definitely seem crazier than average, even here where we have to shoot deer with shotgun slugs. They are noticeably crazier than bird, small game and predator hunters. Coon hunters may be just as crazy as deer hunters, but it's a completely different kind of craziness, in my opinion. Just sayin', The looniness might be related.......

Good article JB.
I THINK I’ve neared the end of the pursuit of the perfect rifle ‘cause I think that I finally have enough rifles to cover just about any contingency; even multiples of the same cartridge.... just in case. BUT, there’s always that tiny little niche that the Looney mind thinks needs to be filled.

For me as a looney, my biggest problem is trying to find a “better” load....can a different bullet shoot a little better? Can a different primer make a difference? Etc., etc..

Don’t forget the the pursuit of perfection can also extend to hunting equipment, knives, binos, scopes, etc. Guilty!

I might be losing it, but I think I have gone past the perfect rifle phase. I am still a looney, but figure if I shoot enough practice rounds through any rifle, it will work. It is not so much about the perfect rifle anymore as thinking it would be really cool to own X,Y or Z rifle. I have mauser, push feed, Model 70's, muzzleloaders, and AR's. I like them all.

From a pragmatice, utilitarian approach, a few rifles would easily cover all the hunting I do. But I like rifles! I know a guy that has 15 classic cars, another that has 20 motorcycles. Life is to enjoy, so enjoy it.

My latest enjoyment besides my tried and trued hunting rifles is a Husky project in 6.5x55 that someone "decided to go a different direction". I really like the rifle, did a few simple things and it is fun to carry and shoot. If I get serious about the rifle, it will need some more serious TLC, but it shoots great right now.

I understand completely. For the hunting I do my 700 Classic in 300 Savage would have it covered. But what would I do with my herd of 308's, or my 700 Classic in 250 Savage, or my 243, or my ....?

Or a 6.5x57R drilling, with 16-gauge shotgun barrels--AND a Krieghoff 8" insert in .22 Rimfire Magnum for the right-hand shotgun barrel that puts 5 shots into an inch at 50 yards? What more do we really "need" for 99% of hunting?

Drillings were surprisingly (to me) uncommon when I was hunting in Germany ("West Germany," at the time) back in the early '80s. And I never saw a Vierling afield anywhere. We used to make a pilgrimage to Frankonia Jagd in Munchen from time to time, though (even bought some of our furniture from them) to ogle the merchandise. Didn't have enough D-Marks to rub together then, though, so a Drilling never made it into my safe...

Made do with a Husqvarna M96 in 6.5x55 for a while, although military sights weren't great. Worked well enough on rehbok, though.

-Chris

Vintage JB; I like articles like that.

MM

What purchases or possessions have changed your life?

I've quoted the line "The things you own end up owning you" from the movie "Fight Club" more than a few times, but I still like having nice things and my firearms are some of them.

John, my first comment is about your style. I don't quite know how to define it. It's a blend of curmudgeonly, sarcastic, jaded, cynical and snarky. But somehow you pull it off with warmth, humor and genuineness without coming off as condescending or arrogant.

"to “control” the cartridge during its long and difficult journey from magazine to chamber."

That says so much more than it says, and all of us can relate to it.

Now for the question that says so much more than it says. The rifle loony in you will smile or perhaps smirk at this. Have you ever played with a rifle built on a Barnard action?

Thanks! One thing I try to do is make it plain that among the rifle loonies I poke fun of is me....

No, I haven't played with a Barnard action.

You will never be perfect, but on the way to perfect, you may achieve excellent. Rio7

My goodness, this poor guy is trying to retire, and you guys just hammer him with questions...lol I'm being sarcastic of course, because I do the same thing to him. Thank you John for being a good sport and always helping everyone! I agree with PaulBarnard, you have a very elegant style, making your work informative, understandable, with witty good humor along the way.

Thanks!

Am apparently very weakly trying to retire--don't think I ever will, totally. Most writers don't.

Did drop half my magazine work a couple years ago, because it started to become a PITA and had made some OK investments that paid as well. Had enough steady work with three magazines to more than get by.

But in the past three months have had four other magazines I haven't written for in a couple years (and sometimes much longer) ask me to do something, for more than they'd ever paid before. Didn't have the will to resist....

JB, you are always willing to answer questions and being so approachable you make everyone feel like a friend. Thanks.

John...I like when you say" something will do this, that, or the other thing," then say, " or maybe not." Cracks me up every time, but that`s so true.

Keep up the great work.

"This Alaskan grizzly is unaware that it’s not really dead, since it was shot with a push-feed rifle."
Probably one of the greatest photo captions ever. Well played, John, well played.

Great article John,

I remember you mentioning over tightening scopes causing problems, but can’t remember when and where you wrote that, and I’d like to re-read it...

Always a pleasure reading your work.
Spot

Spotshooter,

Thanks very much!

Darned if I can remember where I first mentioned over-tightening scope rings, but it was at least 15 years ago, and in more than one magazine article and book. Which is probably why you can't remember where you first read it!

Do know the chapter on scope-mounting in my 2010 book Obsessions of a Rifle Loony starts with over-tightening.

MD,

Is the 17 Hornet your favorite round for Prairie Dogs... and how do you compare it to using the 204 ruger, or other 20’s like the Vartag

I’m getting ready to make a couple PD rifles.. so I was just looking your learnings - I know I liked my 204, so the hornet & Vartag are new ground for me.

I've found that under "average" conditions the .17 Hornet is a 300-yard prairie dog rifle when using plastic-tipped 20-grain bullets. Have also found, after shooting PDs with a bunch of people, that almost nobody hits more PDs than they miss beyond about 300 yards in average conditions. It's also far easier to spot your own shots (whether hits or misses) with the .17 Hornet than almost any other round. The .17 Fireball comes close, and was my choice for most PD shooting before the .17 Hornet appeared, but used more powder, so heated up the barrel far quicker. It got maybe 250 fps more with 20-grain bullets than the Hornet, but I never could tell any practical difference in the field. (Plus, my first Hornet shot a little better!)

Also found that the .204 works just as well on PDs as the .22-250 or .220 Swift at ranges from about 300-500 yards, the cartridges most PD shooters used for shots beyond 300 back when I started PD shooting--again, with less recoil, so its easier to spot your own shots--and with less powder, so barrels don't heat up as quickly.

So that's my pair of cartridges for PD shooting out to around 500 yards--at least until I find something better....

Beyond 500 I use whatever round uses much higher BC bullets. Have used everything from a fast-twist .223 Remington to rounds like the 6.5-06. My latest is a 6XC. But I don't do as much 500+ shooting as I used to, partly because most landowners want PDs thinned out, not trained to duck into their holes at the first rifle shot.

Thanks that helps, I’m planning a heavy barreled 204. But I’m sure tempted with trying the hornet.

For anything past 400 I’ll probably stick with my 6 Creed PRS rifle, my current barrel is really just starting to run, I’m getting a 2” group at 800 yards right now ...
Gordy apparently taught me how to chamber pretty well :), I’m extremely happy with it.

I have a couple of those walmart ADL’s.. so I”ll be making a couple 204’s..

Thank you sir.