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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
That would be easier on me for sure. I don't have one setup.

Dang thing is this year it will be balls to the wall like last I think. But you never know. Though when fishing we fish 7 days a week...Will just have to see. I would love to shoot again for the heck of it.

Just being able to see clearly even with low X will be a plus to eyes I think. And should be able to see changes a bit while on the sight, which is tough on irons.

That said I've always tried to shoot flags, but then again you don't always have the flags you need, but if you have flags to 600 on EACH side of the range you can usually find one that tells the truth.

I suspect I would have to start all over on wind knowledge and shooting skills, but doesn't bother me. I'm used to starting at the bottom.


What’s crazy we used one flag at 600yds according to it no wind. But why were we adjusting for wind. We had an extra flag and pole so I hauled it to the other side and wow what a difference. So one side the flag be moving in the wind. Meanwhile other flag not doing anything. That was an eye opener for sure..


You have to have the right flag for sure for that wind. A few smokes out there some days will really open your eyes. Think of wind as water. You've been on water. Watch how the water flows around objects... wind does the same basically. Once you figure that out you kind of can what flags to toss out right away sometimes, others to try to see. Best if if you can see an upwind accurate flag WHILE on your sights... thats tough.. at least have to see the flag while in position or its going to give you data you dont' want to see AFTER you shoot... Another reason to learn to break shots quickly once you decide.

I've said before and will again, its hard for me to mentally follow things while waiting on target service or whatever. So I used to be constantly on the sights and adjust every time I felt the need even if I wasn't even in position to shoot so to speak. And if it was different after I shot, even before the target went down I corrected what I saw and kept on until time to shoot... target coming up with shot location I might tweak it one last time and bang. A lot easier once you learn it, than it is to simply type and read.

That said one thing we used to do a bit, shoot without adjusting for wind until you are done. If you aren't shooting an X ring size group vertically there are other things holding you back.

And remember, the 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. a 10 is a warning.


I talked to several folks about adjusting and not adjusting. Some say hold for the wind others say treat each shot likes it’s your first shot and adjust.. I tried both, I adjust for the most part. But my data I always set it for 2-4 mph wind.. use my sighters to see where I’m at.

If you want to learn, then treat each shot as if its your first. But there comes a time you want to win. Then you go with the flow. Sometimes in a string, and unfortunately sometimes more than once, I have had to stop, go back to zero and wait out a weird condition, and then start over.

But how often is your first shot a pinwheel X in conditions? I don't want to do it that way 22 times.

That said you are discussing shading and adjusting. We call em favors. I will favor on a sight but only enough to favor one side or the other of the X. If the favor is going to be a 10 I'm going to adjust and trust my sights not my eyes to a SWAG.

In the middle of a rapid fire string though you often don't have an option. I generally had time to click in prone rapid, but sitting rapid I SUCK at and it takes me forever to get into position and the mag change and etc..that I"ll favor.


I should clarify we are talking to different styles. I shoot mostly Mid range prone. In the AR tactical class, Which is all slow fire we start at 300, 500 and 600. Our fun shoots are all 600yds. I shoot occasional service rifle, our club host monthly reduced yardage service rifle. They do host one leg match a year, which is why I want to get better as a sling shooter.

You think its different, but its still basically the same. All of the ones you mention anyway. FWIW


I’m sure your old crabby ass would say, AR tactical class are cheating with bipods, and 10x scopes shooting out to 600yds. We also don’t shoot rapid fire in mid range prone competition.

It really is all the same, even with the bipods and 10X scopes. The gun has to be good. You have to be good and its all fun. The skills are the same. I've shot mid range and long range prone. Though not with a scope. I enjoy it all. I just like ribbing you cheating guys with scopes. LOL.
I just wanna see BSA come through on the non optical sights.

And yes, you are right the 458 jars me..... 510 WW Factory loads really just about suck... I don't shoot big bullets in it for that reason. LOL.

Any news on opening the matches yet? Sounds like I"m going to have to deal with quarantine here in a bit regardless according to my boss. AND we might even have weekends off for the first 2 months.... I might get my rusty butt out to play yet...already kind of thinking about sending some 80 jlks or 75 amax up just in case. If I ever get as far as I hope.

Back to work here. There is a door calling my name needing more re finish work.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Rost no doubt in order to compete the rifle has to be good. Even with that the guy or gal behind the rifle has to be good.. I’m just out their having fun. Like the match director says no world records are going to be set today so let’s just have some fun. Far as matches i ran into the fella that runs them and no word from post yet. He said the NRA has canceled all sanctioned matches through May though. He’s pissed, he almost has his high master just needs to 20 more shots something like that.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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LOL. Thats the last 20 that you will fall on your face often... took me a few tries for HM XC and LR back in the day..

Having fun is a blast. I get wound up on trying to win at times. But anymore in my life I've decided its the next shot in the tube vs ME. Thats it. Once the wife and I die, all the medals on the wall and such will be tossed in the trash... won't matter to anyone.

I know I keep saying I am trying... but I really am, I just need things to work right, I'd LOVE to come shoot, but it has to work out when I'm in Talkeetna for your area or when a match is at Greely. Can't justify driving 7 hours or so one way to shoot.

You keep having fun, but in the meantime while having fun the best thing you can do is to try to learn WHY that 9 or 8 or 7 came from... seriously. Once you start understanding that its all better. Who cares about the overall score really.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Sorry, work got busy and I lost track of this posting
I will dig up some targets, still working on loads as the fore and aft of the rifle changed a bit ago and I can’t tell if my poi is off now or I am, likely me.
I cannot shoot as well on the bipod as I can on my viper rest. The rest weighs 50lbs or so and I’m on a 10lb restriction for about 2 more weeks (surgery)

I guess once “recovered” I have to start over w/o bipod

Last edited by plastikosmd; 04/30/20.
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Originally Posted by plastikosmd
Sorry, work got busy and I lost track of this posting
I will dig up some targets, still working on loads as the fore and aft of the rifle changed a bit ago and I can’t tell if my poi is off now or I am, likely me.
I cannot shoot as well on the bipod as I can on my viper rest. The rest weighs 50lbs or so and I’m on a 10lb restriction for about 2 more weeks (surgery)

I guess once “recovered” I have to start over w/o bipod


Heal up buddy. I was just interested to see how well that set-up shoots. But i can wait. Im glad you started this thread because it motivated me to get some iron sights on my rifle.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Originally Posted by rost495
LOL. Thats the last 20 that you will fall on your face often... took me a few tries for HM XC and LR back in the day..

Having fun is a blast. I get wound up on trying to win at times. But anymore in my life I've decided its the next shot in the tube vs ME. Thats it. Once the wife and I die, all the medals on the wall and such will be tossed in the trash... won't matter to anyone.

I know I keep saying I am trying... but I really am, I just need things to work right, I'd LOVE to come shoot, but it has to work out when I'm in Talkeetna for your area or when a match is at Greely. Can't justify driving 7 hours or so one way to shoot.

You keep having fun, but in the meantime while having fun the best thing you can do is to try to learn WHY that 9 or 8 or 7 came from... seriously. Once you start understanding that its all better. Who cares about the overall score really.


You talking coming from delta? Or talkeetna? There is a club up in North Pole that holds shoots as well. But this whole Covid thing has screwed things up far as shooting

Last edited by 79S; 04/30/20.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Either or. Delta part of the year. 3 months give or take at Talkeetna. And a couple months in the bush.

It just has to work out timing wise. I shot at the Talkeetna range once on range day last year. Easy to hit the huge 1000 yard steel they had. So I tried the steel wolf at 600 and shot it in the head and made a good hit. That was fun. Loaner 6.5 creed.

North Pole is closer than your shoots, but further than Greely.

19 has screwed a lot of things. Wife and I wanted to go to one of our old matches while I was back in TX just to visit and watch. Nope once we finished deer season the matches shut down... ugh...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Our club was trying to get a 1000 yd shoot scheduled up at Greely this summer. Also apologize to the op for getting his thread so far off topic.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by rost495
[quote=79S][quote=rost495]That would be easier on me for sure. I don't have one setup.

Dang thing is this year it will be balls to the wall like last I think. But you never know. Though when fishing we fish 7 days a week...Will just have to see. I would love to shoot again for the heck of it.

Just being able to see clearly even with low X will be a plus to eyes I think. And should be able to see changes a bit while on the sight, which is tough on irons.

That said I've always tried to shoot flags, but then again you don't always have the flags you need, but if you have flags to 600 on EACH side of the range you can usually find one that tells the truth.

I suspect I would have to start all over on wind knowledge and shooting skills, but doesn't bother me. I'm used to starting at the bottom.


What’s crazy we used one flag at 600yds according to it no wind. But why were we adjusting for wind. We had an extra flag and pole so I hauled it to the other side and wow what a difference. So one side the flag be moving in the wind. Meanwhile other flag not doing anything. That was an eye opener for sure..


You have to have the right flag for sure for that wind. A few smokes out there some days will really open your eyes. Think of wind as water. You've been on water. Watch how the water flows around objects... wind does the same basically. Once you figure that out you kind of can what flags to toss out right away sometimes, others to try to see. Best if if you can see an upwind accurate flag WHILE on your sights... thats tough.. at least have to see the flag while in position or its going to give you data you dont' want to see AFTER you shoot... Another reason to learn to break shots quickly once you decide.

I've said before and will again, its hard for me to mentally follow things while waiting on target service or whatever. So I used to be constantly on the sights and adjust every time I felt the need even if I wasn't even in position to shoot so to speak. And if it was different after I shot, even before the target went down I corrected what I saw and kept on until time to shoot... target coming up with shot location I might tweak it one last time and bang. A lot easier once you learn it, than it is to simply type and read.

That said one thing we used to do a bit, shoot without adjusting for wind until you are done. If you aren't shooting an X ring size group vertically there are other things holding you back.

And remember, the 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. a 10 is a warning.


I talked to several folks about adjusting and not adjusting. Some say hold for the wind others say treat each shot likes it’s your first shot and adjust.. I tried both, I adjust for the most part. But my data I always set it for 2-4 mph wind.. use my sighters to see where I’m at.

If you want to learn, then treat each shot as if its your first. But there comes a time you want to win. Then you go with the flow. Sometimes in a string, and unfortunately sometimes more than once, I have had to stop, go back to zero and wait out a weird condition, and then start over.

But how often is your first shot a pinwheel X in conditions? I don't want to do it that way 22 times.

That said you are discussing shading and adjusting. We call em favors. I will favor on a sight but only enough to favor one side or the other of the X. If the favor is going to be a 10 I'm going to adjust and trust my sights not my eyes to a SWAG.

In the middle of a rapid fire string though you often don't have an option. I generally had time to click in prone rapid, but sitting rapid I SUCK at and it takes me forever to get into position and the mag change and etc..that I"ll favor.




I’m sure your old crabby ass would say, AR tactical class are cheating with bipods, and 10x scopes shooting out to 600yds. We also don’t shoot rapid fire in mid range prone competition.

It really is all the same, even with the bipods and 10X scopes. The gun has to be good. You have to be good and its all fun. The skills are the same. I've shot mid range and long range prone. Though not with a scope. I enjoy it all. I just like ribbing you cheating guys with scopes. LOL.
I just wanna see BSA come through on the non optical sights.

And yes, you are right the 458 jars me..... 510 WW Factory loads really just about suck... I don't shoot big bullets in it for that reason. LOL.

Any news on opening the matches yet? Sounds like I"m going to have to deal with quarantine here in a bit regardless according to my boss. AND we might even have weekends off for the first 2 months.... I might get my rusty butt out to play yet...already kind of thinking about sending some 80 jlks or 75 amax up just in case. If I ever get as far as I hope.

Back to work here. There is a door calling my name needing more re finish work.

We all like ribbing each other, its all in fun. I respect what both of you guys bring to the table. I think part of the reason im wanting to run those irons is because you said using a scope is like cheating, and to a certain extent it is. However, shooting 600 yards with a 4 power scope isnt exactly easy. It still takes good equipment and shooter and ammo to score consistently. Back to the irons, if i can get to a point where im shooting 1 moa in the black rifle challenge, ill know ive rung just about all the accuracy out of that Noveske that i can. I'll be content with that, even if that means i'd be shooting something like a 100-8x average.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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100-8x average would have been nuts to me with post front sight. Maybe with apertures. But thats getting close to what used to be a record, which was IIRC 200-17x at least with a service rifle anyway.

Optics make it easier period simply due to the sight picture being on one focal plane. Thats really huge for aging eyes and eyes period. Its not the magnification that helps so much as it is the focal plane IMHO. Though magnification usually up to a point doesn't hurt.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Getting bored with Ben Avery's 1000 yard being shut down for weeks so I headed to our open club's 500 yard range with a fellow campfire member this morning to do some load testing and socializing.
Trying out a new powder at a couple different weights and comparing to my baseline load with Varget. Not sure I'm good enough with a sling to see any definitive differences. Vertical may be the most telling as there were no usable flags and my mirage skills need improvement. Still fun to be shooting at midrange at least. Pretty sure Bill out shot me with his service rifle...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

We were both using e targets which locate the shots using microphones on the target frame corners and provide a lot of data. No need to pull and paste which is great.



Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Originally Posted by MikeS
Getting bored with Ben Avery's 1000 yard being shut down for weeks so I headed to our open club's 500 yard range with a fellow campfire member this morning to do some load testing and socializing.
Trying out a new powder at a couple different weights and comparing to my baseline load with Varget. Not sure I'm good enough with a sling to see any definitive differences. Vertical may be the most telling as there were no usable flags and my mirage skills need improvement. Still fun to be shooting at midrange at least. Pretty sure Bill out shot me with his service rifle...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

We were both using e targets which locate the shots using microphones on the target frame corners and provide a lot of data. No need to pull and paste which is great.



Nice. Looks like the majority of your groups are centered. If that is a mr 500 yard target, that 10 ring is 10" across. Basically 2 moa. What rifle were you using? Looks like a bolt gun laying there. Is it set up with irons. If so, what kind? You also dont say what bullet you are using. Must have been a pretty calm day, if you didnt have flags. Cool targets, thanks for posting.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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You're correct, BSA that is a 500 yard center I stapled onto my larger LR target face. The rifle is a .308 Palma rifle built on a model 70 action, Warner rear, 22mm front sight, 155.5 fullbores and 155 Sierras. Barrel is a little tired at 4500 rounds, but a new Kreiger should be here in June.

Iron sights, prone with sling for the 60 shots on the target face.

The wind was forecast for 5-7 but don't think it made it that high. Think I went from 1/2 minute left to 1-1/4minute right total. No wind flags as it wasn't a match, one short, red, "range is hot" flag off to one side.

I'm thinking a 60 shot group composite of 3 different loads at 500 with no bipods or rests should be the new Campfire standard, to heck with 10 shots off a bench, grin.


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Originally Posted by MikeS
You're correct, BSA that is a 500 yard center I stapled onto my larger LR target face. The rifle is a .308 Palma rifle built on a model 70 action, Warner rear, 22mm front sight, 155.5 fullbores and 155 Sierras. Barrel is a little tired at 4500 rounds, but a new Kreiger should be here in June.

Iron sights, prone with sling for the 60 shots on the target face.

The wind was forecast for 5-7 but don't think it made it that high. Think I went from 1/2 minute left to 1-1/4minute right total. No range flags as it wasn't a match, one short, red, "range is hot" flag off to one side.

I'm thinking a 60 shot group composite of 3 different loads at 500 with no bipods or rests should be the new Campfire standard, to heck with 10 shots off a bench, grin.

Very nice buddy. Thanks for the info... I got rained out today and the wind came in like a bat out of hell. Forced me to call it. I was starting to get wet. Here's 4 shots from my Noveske, that I just put the flip up back up irons on:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The rain was coming down too hard to continue shooting and the wind knocked my target stand down... Even though I was on a bench that was covered, the wind was forcing the rain under the cover.. There will be better days to shoot...!!!
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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Good shooting. Wind is fun, rain and not being able to see, not so much...


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Originally Posted by MikeS
Good shooting. Wind is fun, rain and not being able to see, not so much...


Thanks mike. Yeah, i dont mind the wind much at 100 yards. The rain sure is a biotch though. I noticed the damn wind pushes those 69's around a bit. I shot yesterday and the wind was shifting. I managed to sloppily shoot a 100-7x. Score not too bad, but group size sucked..

As some of us know, sometimes its easier to get lucky and shoot a good score vs. shooting a super small group size, then again it could be vise versa. Here are a couple targets from yesterday:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Barely snuck that 100-6x in and lobbed that dang 100-7x in there. Wind was pushing those little bullets around, plus I'm learning those sights. They seem to be doing a great job though.. The funny thing about the 100-6x target, is the group size was pretty good (1.2 MOA):
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Barely broke that 10 ring, got lucky....
... I need more practice behind the gun. Shooting right handed and all....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
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