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killed my firs elk after my mule spotted it and stopped. i did dismount

i have had a couple i could shoot a 22 off of squirrel hunting.-and hit a squirrel.

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Very informative post. Brought up things I hadn’t considered. Never thought about a horses breathing, but makes a lot of sense.
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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by hanco
In the movies a horse can run forever at a full gallop.
I know it varies from horse to horse and condition just like humans, but what is realistic??

You have bank robbers chased for days in the movies. How long is a horse good for in a pursuit like that?

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At a dead run... I wouldn't ride any horse more than a few minutes.

At a slow lope, given some rest and time to cool off, you could get 3-4 hours out of one in good shape.

You can sure ride a horse to permanent injury or death pretty quick.

Yep, every thing he said.

A trot is the fastest way for a horse to travel in an energy efficient manner. Many, if in good condition, can trot for a couple hours, then walk a ways, and trot again.

When I wanted to go five miles or more quickly, and could put the horse away at the end, I cantered a 1/4 mile then trotted 1/4 mile, and cantered 1/4 mile, and trotted 1/4, etc.

But if you intend to cover ground, as in a 100 miles or more, you walk and trot and lead the horse. A young man in good physical condition can out travel any horse on Earth (a rider on his back exacerbates the situation), over the long haul. The horse must be given several hours each day to graze and replenish his energy reserves, where a man can carry enough staples at his waist to last him a week.

The native Americans often captured wild horses simply by walking them down. It might take a week, but it is entirely possible. Terrain in which you can hold the wild horse off of water makes the task easier.

In my teens, twenties, and early thirty, I could, on foot carrying my rifle and ammo, beat any horseman from camp up the mountain, (2500 feet elevation in six miles) to our favorite scouting position by about half the time it took them to arrive. And I could beat them back to camp as easily.

I brought a few horses home from a mountain lathered like they had just run the K Derby, and I never got in the saddle.

Horses are good for packing crippled old men, like I have become, or fat, out of shape flatlanders not used to elevation in the mountains. They are unsurpassed for carrying game back to camp. And they are wonderful for short fast sprints such as cutting off a cow trying to escape, running around a mountain to get ahead of game you saw headed that way, or for short, intense cavalry charges.

But about five minutes is all a horse can give you at peak performance levels. A quarter horse, about half of that. That is the reason horse races are limited in length, and endurance races are closely monitored.

A marathon might well be won by a trained athlete over a bareback horse, and definitely by the athlete over a horse carrying a 200 lb man, saddle, and bit of gear. An endurance racing horse typically averages about 7MPH, while the better marathon runner often exceeds 9MPH.


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A little onion. Some seasoning salt. Light pepper, DONT over cook, and good to go.


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There is actually a race in Arizona each year pitting people versus horses.
https://managainsthorse.net/

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That website has a link to past race results. It appears that runners beat the riders in both 25 mile and 50 mile events last year.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
A marathon might well be won by a trained athlete over a bareback horse, and definitely by the athlete over a horse carrying a 200 lb man, saddle, and bit of gear. An endurance racing horse typically averages about 7MPH, while the better marathon runner often exceeds 9MPH.


Makes it easier to understand how Apache men, women and children on foot could cover ground faster than mounted cavalry over the long haul, especially over difficult terrain.


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Yes, when one is used to running every where you go, one has little use for a horse. Except for specific duties like hauling a travoise, or getting you up close to a running bison to deliver a lance. But even then, it was easier to just drive the bison over the edge of a cliff.

A good athlete, and the American Indian was every bit of that, just does not need much of a head start on a horseman. And he will never be caught.

Note how closely relay stations were spaced for the Pony Express.


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Originally Posted by KRAKMT
There is actually a race in Arizona each year pitting people versus horses.
https://managainsthorse.net/


that event if i remember right, started when i was in the jaycees. humans almost always won, and that is somewhat rough country the race is held in.
as i remember, sort of. there was a lot of beer envolved in the planning of the race.

as a kid i remember my dad who was born in flagstaff in 1902, telling of a annual hopi indian race where they would run from the east side to the west side of arizona in a race. His comment was those short legged guys actually had an endurance atvantage in the long distance runs.
as to the apache, all one has to do is go down into southern arizona in the mountains and you understand why the army wasn't very effective against them. rough country horses couldn' handle it much less the anglo troopers vs. the apache.

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there are some fantastic stories of horses that made unbelievable runs during the opening of the west. animals used hard daily were amazing.


Pony Bob Haslam & the Longest Ride
Robert Haslam, aka Pony Bob, 1908
Robert Haslam, aka Pony Bob, 1908

When Pony Bob Haslam was buried in Chicago, Illinois, 52 years had passed since the Pony Express first ran. He was 1,700 miles away from his old home station. For the last six years of his life, he had toiled as a clerk at the Congress Hotel.

Still, when he died, the newspapers of the day printed glowing tributes. “Pony Bob Haslam, Who Knew No Fear, Dies in Chicago — a man once famous throughout the United States for his courage, endurance, and skill.”

“Pony Bob,” by which name he is most famous, was a Pony Express rider in the Old West and credited with making the longest uninterrupted ride during the brief duration of the Pony Express. He was born in London, England in 1840 and as a teen, immigrated to the United States. He made his way to Salt Lake City, Utah where he worked on a ranch and as a government messenger. He was at home on a horse. He was loyal, brave, and committed to getting the job done. Pony Bob fit the model for what a Pony Express rider should be.

In 1860, he was 20 years old when he was hired by Bolivar Roberts, a Pony Express Division Superintendent in Carson City, Nevada. He helped build the stations and was assigned the run from Friday’s Station (State Line) to Bucklands Station near Fort Churchill, 75 miles to the east.

Haslam is credited with having made the longest round trip ride of the Pony Express. He received the eastbound mail at Friday’s Station during a time when the Paiute Indians were on the warpath. Area residents were frantically working to fortify their property against war parties whose signal fires were blazing on every peak for a hundred miles. When he arrived at the Carson River, 60 miles away, he found that the settlers had seized all the horses at the station for use in the campaign against the Indians.

He went on without a relay down the Carson River to Buckland’s Station 15 miles farther. Here, his relief rider was so badly frightened over the Indian threat that he refused to take the mail. Within ten minutes Pony Bob was in the saddle again. He rode 35 miles to the Carson Sink; got a fresh horse and made the next 30 miles, without a drop of water; changed at Sand Springs and again at Cold Springs; and after 190 miles in the saddle, turned the pouches over to J. G. Kelley at Smith’s Creek.

After a rest of nine hours, he retraced his route with the westbound mail. At Cold Springs he found that Indians had raided the place, killing the station keeper and driving off the horses. It was growing dark. He rode his jaded animal across the 37-mile interval to Sand Springs, got a remount, and pressed on to the sink of the Carson River. Afterward, it was found that during the night he had ridden straight through a ring of Indians who were headed in the same direction in which he was going. Finally, he reached Buckland’s Station, without a mishap and within four hours of the scheduled time. The 380-mile round trip we the longest on record for the Pony Express.

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Originally Posted by las
A friend in Isaho, his brother, and his dad all hunted elk off horses they could shoot from. trained them themselves. Said the elk would often not spook from a mounted person like they would from foot hunter. And their horses would often tell them of elk they had yet to see themselves.


My family has run stock in Idaho since 1904, and I beg to differ...
Horses clodding up a stream bed over rocks will spook elk in a frikken heartbeat!
But I've only 68 horses right now, and killed more elk from horse than not...


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by las
A friend in Isaho, his brother, and his dad all hunted elk off horses they could shoot from. trained them themselves. Said the elk would often not spook from a mounted person like they would from foot hunter. And their horses would often tell them of elk they had yet to see themselves.

On much USFS ground, game is used to seeing horse and rider all through the summer. Multiple use allows grazing and where cattle go, cowboys will be there to direct their grazing and care for the animals.

I have also ridden close to game animal. But, of course, I have walked quite close to game animals (well, deer anyway. Elk are much more wary) during the opening days of season.

Often, early in season, if you avoid looking directly at a deer with both eyes, do not walk directly toward the deer, especially staring at it, the deer will not recognize you as a predator.

I have walked or ridden to within easy rifle range of many deer while the animal watched me approach. One early morning, opening day of season, I was riding through an aspen thicket and a spike bull elk stepped around a bend in the trail into full view at less than ten yards. I only had a cow tag that season, so I just sat on my horse and we three (me, horse, and elk) just looked at each other for about thirty seconds. The elk slipped away down the side of the mountain and was silently gone. But when I brought my eyes back forward, a small four point buck had taken his place in the trail.

I drew my scoped 30-06 from the scabbard under my left leg, then swung the left leg over the saddle horn and slid off the right, uphill side of saddle. The deer took two jumps which brought him from due North to due East of my position. I lifted the rifle and found an antler tip in the 12X scope. Then followed the antler down to the base of the skull and shot the deer in the second vertebrae. All while he just stood broadside and looked at me.

Sure, I could have pointed the rifle forward over the horses ears and killed the deer, but I would rather lose the game than subject my horse to that muzzle blast.

I particularly remember one day in about six inches of snow, about forty years ago, I walked on open ground toward a pair of deer on an open slope above and ahead of me. They stood and watched curiously as I approached. I decided I was in a good position at 250 yds for a shot.

But instead of falling backward onto my butt and rolling to a prone position, I fell to my knees and then to my belly. The deer interpreted that as a lunge in their direction and took off around the mountain.

I had to hike another 1/2 mile and gain another 500 feet elevation (where the snow was now 10 inches deep) before catching up again and filling my tag.

I promise, that is a mistake I never repeated.



Wow...


You can no more tell someone how to do something you've never done, than you can come back from somewhere you've never been...
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