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"Prior knowledge" of what - and how gained? You bought the 28 Nosler perhaps just because you like the name? Never saw ANY ballistic info on it prior to your purchase? Had no idea if it was a fast flat shooter or slower than a 7mm Waters?

Nice selection, BTW. I have a Savage action awaiting a decision on a barrel and the 28 Nosler and .375 Ruger are both candidates.

I'm with you brother

Right question as it is exactly what I wanted to ask.

I didn’t suggest “using ONLY ballistic data”, I asked how do you evaluate cartridges “WITHOUT ballistic information”.

Ballistic info doesn’t tell everything a person needs to know, particularly about what happens after impact, as I stated here:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...8-heading-towards-obscurity#Post14881098


Like you said, though, ballistic info is “really useful for some purposes.” Such as evaluating a the potential of a cartridge for a particular purpose. Or comparing the potential of different cartridges. That is hardly a “fool’s errand”. When I first came to Colorado and decided to purchase my first centerfire with the specific purpose of elk hunting, Dad suggested a .356Win or .375 Win, both of which were being hyped at the time. After comparing the ballistics with a 7mm RM, .300WM and a couple others, the ballistics alone were enough to rule out the .356 Win and .375 Win. I went with the 7mm RM and a 162g bullets. That choice was 90% ballistics and 10% concern about the extra recoil of a .300WM. Turns out the 7mm RM was an excellent choice, my first choice for bullet not so much. So I rectified the bullet choice.

We know that two different cartridges launching identical bullets at identical velocities have identical potential. We also know that different cartridges launching similar bullets at similar velocities will have similar potential and that the potentials diverge as the velocities diverge. If you know how a 7mm-08 performs with a 140g AB, you can look at a ballistic table and accurately predict a .280 Rem with the same bullet will a) perform the same with the same impact velocity and b) given a higher MV for the .280 Rem, it will perform the same at a longer range.

BTW, I now have a .375 Win. I bought it 19 years after the 7mm RM, after taking another look at the ballistics. It still isn’t a great choice for my type of elk hunting but it IS a fun rifle and cartridge. And I bought it for fun.

i own plenty different size cartridges killed animals with many of them,but either my 257 Weatherby Mag. or my 264 Win.Mag recoil is light ,accuracy is good close and far, but both these cartridges knock big deer down very well. you would have to shoot a few animals to see what happens when you pull the trigger its like dynamite hit`n that animal with shock wave. when a good 100 gr. bullet goes 3600-3800 fps out of your rifle its very impressive when it hits a animal or as many of us say speed kills.

You're trying to engineer killing a deer or an elk. You're way overthinking it.

Exactly. If you list the things that make or break a successful hunt, choice of cartridge is waaaaay down on the list.

But it sure does lend itself to mental masturbation.

No, I’m simply asking a question as to how people evaluate cartridges for a specific purpose or need without using ballistic information. I never mentioned elk or deer or even hunting and they may have nothing to do with a the specific purpose or need in question.

I’ll grant there are non-ballistic issues to be considered when buying a rifle, such as availability at the needed price point, the left/right handedness needed, the desired configuration (bolt/lever/single-shot/whatever) and cartridge/component availability, etc. These issues, however, have no bearing on the capability of a cartridge per se.

A person doesn’t need to shoot anything or have any prior knowledge of a cartridge or cartridges to determine from ballistic tables that a .375 H&H is a better choice for cape buffalo than a .22 Hornet. An extreme case, admittedly, but it makes the point. Maybe the use is home defense, in which case ballistic tables would clearly show the relative danger of over-penetration. Maybe the purpose is target shooting at long range and wind drift is the primary consideration, in which case ballistic tables can be used to quickly separate the wheat from the chaff.

By the way, ballistic tables are not the only way people get ballistic information. That information may come by word of mouth from any number of sources (“Yes, the .30 Whatzit” will kill deer out past 600 yards”). The reliability of such information, of course, may be anything from very good to misleading, questionable or downright wrong.

My question was not about choosing a hunting cartridge but rather about choosing a cartridge to fit a specific need. Not surprised that you missed that entirely.

How do you analyze buying toilet paper at the store prior to purchase?

..........How about doing some reading (like only 5 seconds) without looking at or pondering over ballistic tables??.... After the 28 Nosler was intro'd, all I did was look on the Nosler site..... Well well!!....3125-50 fps using a 175 grainer. That was all I needed to see before making my purchase of a 28 Nosler. Already had common knowledge of 7mm BCs. Did not need to compare the 28 Nosler to any other 7mm round including the Remington, Waters or Weatherby because it was not necessary, nor necessary to consult any ballistic tables.....Same holds true for my 300 WSM, 375 Ruger and (da beast) 338-378 Bee........

Many of us have been reloading, hunting, shooting, and craving rifles for 40+ years. We have read/learned ballistic coefficients/sectional densities/ft pounds,wind drift, drop, MOA. The only really big advancement in my 40yrs seems to me is twist rate. Most of us probably already have enough ballistic knowledge to not have to consult much of anything to determine whether a particular cartridge is viable. In the end I guess it is necessary to know some data (even from trial and error experience). In the end it is just for fun.

Experience, after over 50 years in the field and working with over 100 cartridges, my experience. 50 years ago, the experience of those I knew and trusted. It ain't rocket science.

First-hand experience. Don't pay much attention to the written word.. I see for myself. If it feels good, shoots good, looks good, and does the right amount of damage to my target of choice, it gets used.

I do like to shoot so I'll shoot most anything for the hellofit...just get get my first impression. That and if the ammo box has a deer head on it for deer hunting rifles.

Thanks!
g

This is the hunting rifles forum. "Not surprised you missed that entirely." Reading the fine print on the ballistics charts must be affecting your eyesight. It's either that or the mental masturbation. I heard it'll make you go blind.

Don't make light of it Greg. Lot's of different cartridges will do just fine for elk and deer, but if you bring the wrong toilet paper.......

I just built a 30BR VFS rifle. Why? They win matches

Yep. Both are great, the 7 mag and 270 Weatherby are right there with them.

Why are so many "good" people leaving here? Threads like this.

This thread is epic


That's right. Call out threads are ridiculous, aren't they?

It seems like a very simple process to me, as noted by GregW and smokepole. If I'm going Nilgai hunting for example (never have) I'll find someone who's experienced in Nilgai hunting, ask some questions, problem solved. I won't spend hours and hours wasting time with ballistic tables I assure you.