Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire History Channel: Grant

The Confederacy was concerned with separating itself from the rest of the U.S. New view, old view, same view. It was a legitimate pursuit. Barring lincoln's prosecution of the war the two would have soon been allies and slavery would never have lasted. It was as just a revolution as the first.

And as soon as those great humanitarians were done freeing the slaves they started freeing the savage injuns. Same federal government, same army, many of the same officers, somewhat same troops. The slaves had ordinarily little the industrial north wanted. Easy to claim high moral standards when the better reason was forcible retention of the southern states. . Injuns on the other hand had a LOT the union wanted. Natural resources at the time unlimited, including land to cultivate and graze, and hard mineral riches (gold, silver, etc) to name a few. The South was needed. The slaves were not. The frontier was needed. The Injuns were not. But they were just savages. They needed killing, by the same moralistic government that could tolerate slavery no more. Pffftt

Grant had one of the most corrupt administrations ever assembled, until LBJ and Obama (and yes, that includes the Clintons, too). His BIA was about as bad as it could possibly get, fueling the Indian Wars in the West.

Don't forget DC. A bunch of them moved to DC after being freed. They figured Lincoln would take care of them. And here we are...

Only 2% (more or less) of Southerners owned slaves..

Truth.

Pretty ironic that Lincoln cared so much about slaves but was cutting checks for millions of dollars for dead Indians.

Can someone please explain how someone so concerned with equality of blacks can support killing Indians?

Abolishment of slavery was a political tool.

That's correct, it was used as a political tool by both sides.

Both wishing to wield the power of the Federal government as it pertained to industry and agriculture and new territories.

Lincoln, as someone stated, wasn't an abolitionist. He was in a race with pro-slavery contingents that wanted to expand it in the same way he wanted it limited.

What is ironic is that the Dred Scott decision trampled on the right of a state to be a duly legislated free state.

The south’s grandest stumbling block came in the form of Jefferson Davis.

Some of the Southern crew make some reasonable conclusions regarding the reasons for and historic facts post CW....And their view on secession as compared to the American Revolution are valid..

However, the States Right they were defending was the right to have slaves....Some one mentioned it was a "legal" right.....another that we should remember that only 2% or so of Southerners owned slaves....Well if one of yours sold you into another country where slavery was legal and unfortunately for you, you were one of the 2% what would be your opinion on the legality of your situation?????

Today Lee is looked upon as all that was great about the South back in the day. He is the poster boy for the cause....He had some slaves, but thought the practice in an of itself was wrong, but history tells us he did allow some of his to be whipped if they desired to free themself from the law of slavery...Well let's place old Robert in modern times for a moment. His home State is California; and Maxine, Nancy and the the crew want out because Trump won again, so they vote to withdraw from the Union. Now while most of us would gladly send them on their way, Washington decides they are not in favor of the idea, what with the ocean.food and computer chips. So it comes to killing....Now Robert just can't fire against against his fellow citizens, but he can against other Americans and becomes the military genius of California's war with America....After California goes down should Robert be considered a hero????

Maxine and Nancy being a given....

A fact which speaks reams about the antebellum Southern economy and society, not much of it good.

The cotton gin and the steam engine ruined the South, the first by making cotton an economically viable crop and the second by powering British textile mills that were cranking out this new miracle product - inexpensive cotton fabric produced by steam-powered machinery, by the millions of yards.

After centuries of homespun, the whole world wanted this cheap and abundant cotton fabric, and England had the Empire to give it to them. 80% of this cotton came from the American South.

By 1820 the fastest way to a million dollars in the South was a cotton plantation, nailing down chattel slavery as, in their own words, the “Cornerstone” of the Southern economy. By 1860 King Cotton was 80% of the Southern economy, in the hands of 2% of the population, who claimed ownership of 25% of the population.

Slavery was more than just hopefully benevolent imprisonment and a lifetime of stolen labor. A slave did not even own their own body, had no claim to their wife or husband, had no claim to even their own children, from the moment of birth.

In our society our leaders come from among our wealthiest men, by 1860 the South had been governed by the Planter Class Aristocracy for forty years.

These men made decisions for and about cotton, which is why the South was so poorly equipped for war when war came. Cotton smothered all else, it smothered industry, it smothered innovation, it smothered education, it smothered transportation and it smothered all other crops.

It also smothered immigration, nobody could compete with slave labor. Balance Free and Slave States all ya want, Congress is based on population, and every election cycle there were more and more Yankee Congressmen in the House, the South becoming more and more a minority in their own Nation.

Lincoln had been a thorn in the side of the South since Congressman Abraham Lincoln’s staunch opposition to the Mexican War fourteen years earlier. When THAT guy became President, South Carolina, so cotton that the majority of people in it were slaves, was the first to pull the plug on the Union. South Carolina said it was about slavery, so did half the States in the Confederacy.


That same Planter Class were the same group who were dumb and short-sighted enough to actually try and blackmail the British Empire into recognition by threatening to NOT sell ‘em cotton, the South’s only real income. In response the Brits merely started growing their own in Egypt and India, ruining the Post War South.

JMHO

I read it. Agree with most of it, but you left out the north''s extortion of taxing the south so THEY could process the cotton. Bottom line is had slavery been abolished when the Brits did it, the war might have not happened..

One of the aspects that hurt the chances of slavery ending earlier in the US was the brutality of the Hatian slave revolt in the early 19th century. When stories got back to the US told by French refugees it scared hell out of everyone. This had a major influence on things here. Especially with the influx of possibly as many as 12,000 refugees in Philadelphia alone. It was the first real mass migrations to the fledgling United States.

Prior to the revolt, In some areas in North America, some slaves were experiencing small freedoms that had been unheard of before. Especially in Louisiana, west Florida, etc. The revolt put a big kabash on that with new restrictions. I’m in no way trying to promote slavery or any cause, just stating some facts. It was still slavery.

Hey Birdy! Ya know how I feel! 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Some one mentioned the History channel comparing Lee to Hitler....

Fact is Slavery was legal at the time. Not saying it is right, just legal. Also strange that a country that fought to keep the country whole, has since fought to help separate other countries. North Vietnam and South Vietnam, North Korea, and South Korea, to name a couple. Y'all are getting hung up on the slavery part and overlooking a lot more. miles

??

The Santee Sioux bloodbath in Minnesota of 1863 killed an estimated 800 White settlers, mostly women and children, over just three weeks. More than the total of the Colorado, Sand Creek, Washita, Milk River and Wounded Knee bloodlettings combined.

Lincoln’s handling of that uprising and its aftermath was amazing for its benevolence, sparing most (80??) of those Santee participants sentenced to be hung.

Famed future Matabele and Boer war hero and scout Frederick Russell Burnham survived that uprising by being hidden (as a toddler) in a corn crib!!!

Actually I don’t think he was quite a year old.

The funniest one of these I’ve seen yet Tks.

Throw in Nat Turner and his localized uprising .
That didnt help either.