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I concur Joebob

Archaeologist son specializes in historic (post contact) archaeology. He has done a lot of  "plantation" as well as other slave related archaeology. Some of the archaeological evidence as well as primary documentation research, from several locations has shed some light on the rights and responsibilities afforded some slaves unsusal for the time. One instance is the use and availability of firearms . Still much interpretation to be further analyzed.


As a sidenote it has been well documented that when Stephen Austin activated the local San Felipe militia about 1824-25 as a punitive force against the local aborigines, Jared Groce appeared with his 90 male slaves all armed with a working firearm and mounted on a suitable horse!


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
There existed quite a brisk trade in slave smuggling along the southwestern borderland/ gulf coast. Lots of folks (famous names) got rich or richer at that game.

That it wouldn’t have kept up with the attrition you speak of Joebob is another debate. Who knows? But it was pretty sucessful for a number of decades.




Yepper, the production of cotton soon outstripped the reproduction of American slaves, the Bowie brothers and Jean LaFitte stepped in to supply a demand; African slaves via Cuba through Galveston. Galveston was legally Mexican, and IIRC slavery illegal for at least part of that time but with no law enforcement to speak of.

Organized crime that it was, I've been curious to know who forced the Bowie brothers out of that trade. By 1835 I know McKinney and Williams, the covert front for the powers-that-be, had installed the West Point Dropout from Georgia, James W. Fannin in that capacity, Fannin smuggling in an illegal shipload of 200 souls right before the shooting started. But that still leaves about a three or four-year gap between the Bowie brothers and Fannin.

Because he worked for the bosses of course, Fannin got to be in charge of the Texian Army they paid for, tho he proved to be out of his depth in that capacity




"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Apparently each time the question of slavery came up each time with the Mexican govt, the state of Texas received a loophole. What ended up happening is a form of legalese indentured servitude.

Son worked a cemetery in Brazoria county that was next to a portion of state highway right of way. This portion required mitigation for a widening project. Originally it was felt there were no graves in the area of mitigation.

Long story short. I believe they ended up mitigating like 12 burials. All 12 were slave era blacks. Apparently they predated the cemetery. Further research and DNA analysis indicated that the occupants were in fact the result of direct trade from Africa. And not brought in as slaves from the US.


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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No one alive in the USA is a slave or has been a slave in the USA except that those who are slaves to welfare and belong to the ghetto gangster culture. They could talk to slaves in Africa, but that would be challenging.

They probably were ethnic studies professors. There is too much affirmative action and lack of intellectual strength in those departments.



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Bur ALL anthropology or even any history of mankind for that matter, is an ethnic study.


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Long story short. I believe they ended up mitigating like 12 burials. All 12 were slave era blacks. Apparently they predated the cemetery. Further research and DNA analysis indicated that the occupants were in fact the result of direct trade from Africa. And not brought in as slaves from the US.


Holy kshizzle! Fatalities en route from Galveston?


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Famed future Matabele and Boer war hero and scout Frederick Russell Burnham survived that uprising by being hidden (as a toddler) in a corn crib!!!

Actually I don’t think he was quite a year old.


"Left alone in the log cabin except for myself, an infant of two years, my mother was keeping a sharp lookout for any sign of hostiles ... Early one evening, as she stood in the doorway brushing her hair, she suddenly spied with horror a band of Indians moving out of the timber along the creek, not far away. Realizing that she could never escape if hampered with her baby, she decided instantly to hide me in a stack of newly shocked corn. ... So she tucked me into the hollow depths of a shock and earnestly adjured me to keep perfectly still, not to move or make the slightest sound until she should return.

"As she was young and strong and exceptionally fleet of foot, she managed to reach some hazel bush on the edge of the cleaning just as the Indians surrounded the cabin. ... At daybreak the next morning, she returned with armed neighbors to look for her baby. She found me, as she often loved to tell, blinking up at her from the safe depths of the green shock where I had faithfully carried out my first orders of silent obedience." - Scouting on Two Continents, by Major Frederick Russell Burnham, D.S.O.

First lesson: do what your mother tells you. Second lesson: be very quiet in the presence of hostile Indians.

Had he been found, he would never have become a scout, he would never have become a close personal friend of Robert Baden-Powell, and there might never have been a Boy Scout movement.

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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Famed future Matabele and Boer war hero and scout Frederick Russell Burnham survived that uprising by being hidden (as a toddler) in a corn crib!!!

Actually I don’t think he was quite a year old.


"Left alone in the log cabin except for myself, an infant of two years, my mother was keeping a sharp lookout for any sign of hostiles ... Early one evening, as she stood in the doorway brushing her hair, she suddenly spied with horror a band of Indians moving out of the timber along the creek, not far away. Realizing that she could never escape if hampered with her baby, she decided instantly to hide me in a stack of newly shocked corn. ... So she tucked me into the hollow depths of a shock and earnestly adjured me to keep perfectly still, not to move or make the slightest sound until she should return.

"As she was young and strong and exceptionally fleet of foot, she managed to reach some hazel bush on the edge of the cleaning just as the Indians surrounded the cabin. ... At daybreak the next morning, she returned with armed neighbors to look for her baby. She found me, as she often loved to tell, blinking up at her from the safe depths of the green shock where I had faithfully carried out my first orders of silent obedience." - Scouting on Two Continents, by Major Frederick Russell Burnham, D.S.O.

First lesson: do what your mother tells you. Second lesson: be very quiet in the presence of hostile Indians.

Had he been found, he would never have become a scout, he would never have become a close personal friend of Robert Baden-Powell, and there might never have been a Boy Scout movement.


Thanks Tjm!

It’s a great book too! I read it not too long ago!!! Highly recommended to all memebers here!!


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Originally Posted by 16bore
Pretty ironic that Lincoln cared so much about slaves but was cutting checks for millions of dollars for dead Indians.

Can someone please explain how someone so concerned with equality of blacks can support killing Indians?

Abolishment of slavery was a political tool.


Thank you. We know now there are at least 2 of us.


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Originally Posted by toltecgriz
I thought the one they did on George Washington a few months ago was excellent. I hope Grant is of the same ilk.



The Grant series is as good as the one on George Washington. The History Channel has been doing much better lately on....History.


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“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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I read Chernow’s biography of Grant a couple years ago, and enjoyed it. Grant is another one of those people, sorta like Custer and a few others, in that you form a sort of negative opinion, but as you get to know more about them and their times, you gain an awful lot of respect.
Most folks know Custer from the battle at LBH, which influences their opinion.
Most know Grant from the Civil War Overland Campaign and a Presidency filled with scandal.
Grant’s campaigns in the west show that he wasn’t a head down butcher that beat Lee by shear numbers. He was actually a pretty good officer, who recognized the shortest way to end the war. Grant agonized over the casualty figures, but he also knew it was necessary for the country to survive as a whole.
Grant also did a fairly good job as President. He did the best he could for the country as he saw fit, and the scandals were result of folks he trusted taking advantage of their positions.
Considering his life story and the context of the times, Grant was an awful lot better than he gets credit for.
Unfortunately, I didn’t get to see the show. I thought the one on Washington was pretty good and was looking forward to Grant. Hopefully it’ll be re-aired when I can see it.
Started to read the thread, but too many seem to be more interested in whizzing contest than actual exchange of information! grin
7mm


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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Television history specials are just that.

Television! The even greater opiate of the masses.

Read a book!!! Or six!!!


Amen!


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Setting aside all the secondhand bigotry exposed so far in this thread, this miniseries is extremely well done and is worth watching, even if you also like to read books.


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Good post.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by 3040Krag
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Television history specials are just that.

Television! The even greater opiate of the masses.

Read a book!!! Or six!!!


Amen!


Some of us know how to do both. And this Grant series is better than some books I have read.

Does a good job with Grant's second war. The one with the Klan.


Last edited by BOWSINGER; 05/28/20.

Leo of the Land of Dyr

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“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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I just finished all three episodes on demand (was able to fast forward through the comercials). I thought it was pretty good.

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I thought it was pretty good. The history books of my day certainly gave short shrift to the totality of his military career. He was big on moving forward, not so much on looking back. Good trait for a leader with a job to do.


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Holy Kshizzle, and I thought everything that could possibly be written about Gettysburg had already been written. Then just last week I came across Allen Guelzo's 2015 book "Gettysburg: The Last Invasion". https://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-Invasion-Vintage-Civil-Library/dp/0307740692

Lee had already been concentrating his forces at Gettysburg prior to the first contact, based on a report from Longstreet's civilian spy Harrison that Meade, newly in command of the Army of the Potomac, was moving north. Lee's intent being to defeat the Union Army in detail as each Corps hurried north to intercept him. Absent Stuart's cavalry though, he had scant specific information as to the movements of those Corps.

General Meade, having just been given command of the Union Army a few days earlier, gave orders for his scattered forces to assemble at Pipe Creek, some 15 miles south of Gettysburg. General John Reynolds, a Pennsylvania native, was already north of Pipe Creek. Due to Stuart's absence, and therefore absence of a cavalry screen to hide Lee's movements, Renold's actually spied the Confederate campfires at a distance from a high hill, Disregarding Meade's orders, Reynolds pushed hard for Gettysburg, with the high eminence of Cemetery Ridge specifically in mind, sending Buford with his cavalry ahead to scout the ground. Reynold's gamble was that if he could seize Cemetery Ridge and engage the enemy, Meade would be compelled to support him, as proved to be the case.

Henry Heth did not approach Gettysburg from Cashtown that morning specifically for shoes. In fact Jubal Early's Corps had already passed through Gettysburg a few days earlier on its intended pincer movement towards Harrisburg. The Confederate Army was merely shifting east along the Chambersburg Pike making room for Longstreet's troops coming in from the west, Lee intending to encamp his army between Gettysburg and Cashtown.

The fact that the Confederates were entirely unaware of the presence of Union cavalry can once again be laid at the feet of the absent Stuart.

At the end of Day 1, the Confederates, Lee included, believed they had won a significant victory having, as intended, attacked only an isolated vanguard of the Union force. While they could possibly have taken Cemetery Ridge and Culp's Hill that night, the general sentiment was they would have time to finish the job the following day.

The Confederates were entirely unaware of the unprecedentedly rapid advance of the Army of the Potomac, including the reinforcements arriving on Cemetery Ridge all through the night. The following morning, Lee thought all he was facing was the same Union troops he had driven up onto the ridge the evening before.

General Lee, on the morning of Day 2, on the word of a single Confederate Scout that the way was open, ordered Longstreet to march down the far side of Seminary Ridge, sweep over to the ridge near the Round Tops and then move up the ridge towards what he assumed would be the unguarded Union rear for an easy victory. The presence of Sickles in the Wheat Field and Peach Orchard came as a rude shock. Again the Army of Northern Virginia was blind without Stuart.

So the Confederate attacks on Day 2 were not originally planned or executed to oppose the numbers and deployment of Union troops they encountered. Having no alternative, they pressed home their attack anyway and it became a close thing.

What other course of action Lee might have taken from beginning to end if he had Stuart to fill him in we'll never know.





"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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