Home Forums Birds & Dogs Waterfowl Win. 12 "Heavy Duck" 3 inch full choke

I've got a dilemma. I have an old Winchester pump 12 ga. in 3 inch with full choke factory barrel.
To hunt geese with it, I need non-toxic ammo, but steel shot isn't safe for the full choke.
Bismuth shot costs $4/shell. What can I shoot in it affordably?

What do you want for it???

I faced the exact same dilemma a few years ago with a heavy duck model 12. I wasn't going to alter the choke, and couldn't afford a steady diet of botique shells. It was never going to replace my 870 anyway. I ended up selling it for a modest profit. I do miss it sometimes though. I think my model 12 itch would better be satisfied with an open choke 20 (or maybe a 16) for the uplands.

As far as what you can shoot, bismuth or heavy shot are about it. Looks like the price has come down though! Midway shows $1.60-$1.80 a round (though currently out of stock).

You could always repurpose it as a turkey gun and shoot lead.

Open up the choke and use it for what it was made for.....Unless it is pristine you will not diminish the value....

The Brits will upgrade an English or Italian best when necessary, but we are hesitant to do the same with a Model 12....Funny....

battue, so I have this correct, opening the choke on these older pumps will let one safely shoot steel??? I have a bunch, I would not mess with my heavy duck, but have a reworked model 12 in 2 3/4, a 31, 97, & some others.. I have thought of opening one of them to mod. or light mod. for upland shooting.. They are all 30 " full... Thanks..

battue, so I have this correct, opening the choke on these older pumps will let one safely shoot steel??? I have a bunch, I would not mess with my heavy duck, but have a reworked model 12 in 2 3/4, a 31, 97, & some others.. I have thought of opening one of them to mod. or light mod. for upland shooting.. They are all 30 " full... Thanks..

Open it up to IC which usually works fine with steel and it will be just as safe as a current barrel of the same constriction....Only thing I would be sure of is that whomever did the work, based the constriction on the step down from the barrel inside diameter. Some of the older guns had smaller insider diameters than todays offerings.

However, perhaps it would be wise to use regular steel velocity loads and not some of the super fast ones that are currently available. Nor would I say for one to use it with a SxS or O/U. Single barrels only....

It is often said that Remington states any barrel they made after 1950, that is fixed modified or less can be shot with steel no larger than 2's. However, I've never tried to verify that with Remington.

I kill more with better shells. I'd just get some Kent Bismuth and use it if patterned well.

That would be my first choice also....

Great advice from battue. I’d consider sending to Briley to have it opened up. They'll do you a great job. Briley can also thread the barrel for thin wall chokes, that are rated for steel. Opening the choke a bit would be easer.

Thanks for the advice, All.

It looks like Briley charges $95 for a choke job. That will pay for itself in a couple boxes of duck loads (steel vs. bismuth), so I may just do that.

I'd go with the "reamed to I/C" route.

I/C with steel is the same as MOD with lead and is fine for waterfowl.

I've had 2 of them, got rid of both, they are clunks compared to an 870. Honest the first thing you need to do is to run a couple of boxes of high brass loads thru it to see if it functions correctly and ejects easy. Go buy a couple of boxes of 3 3/4 de x 1 1/4 oz express type loads and shoot them on hand trap and doing doubles too. If some previous owner has cleaned the chamber without enlarging the chamber extension ring the same time you will have hard extraction because the hull has expanded out past the diameter of the chamber ext ring. Low brass doesn't allways show you this. You need to know if it's a RELIABLE shooter before you spend money on choke work. MB

I have two Heavy Duck Model 12s and they run circles around any 870. The quality of workmanship is superior
for hunting use. Use Kent or other quality Hevi-shot. This combination works on geese quite well, judging from my freezer.

If you think you have a challenge-try shooting waterfowl with an AH Fox Super Fox 3 inch; or an LC Smith Long Range 3 in SXS. Hevi-shot or Bismuth.
I have had no problems but use them for turkeys also.

I have two Heavy Duck Model 12s and they run circles around any 870. The quality of workmanship is superior
for hunting use. Use Kent or other quality Hevi-shot. This combination works on geese quite well, judging from my freezer.

If you think you have a challenge-try shooting waterfowl with an AH Fox Super Fox 3 inch; or an LC Smith Long Range 3 in SXS. Hevi-shot or Bismuth.
I have had no problems but use them for turkeys also.

No doubt...take the two apart and lay the pieces side by side, and the superior quality of the Model 12 will be obvious.

However, the 870 has proven itself over time, and was almost genius in making a reliable pump for the least amount. But it falls short of the Model 12.

I have several model 12’s and more 870’s.. The 870’s just shoot.. Thousands and thousands of rounds.. I think it has been in production far longer than the model 12.. My heavy duck, is a great shooter, but it has had problems functioning.. I took it to a top gunsmith and he corrected the problem.. But he told me the 12 has more moving parts and therefore harder to keep everything in tune.. As much as I love my old pumps, the 870’s would be the last to go.. I have never seen a model 12 shoot rings around any 870...

WCH,
No reasonable person can deny how good the 870 is.....It was so good that it ended the the production of the Model 12. Based on how much it cost to make each one. The Model 12 was essentially a had fitted shotgun made from machined parts. While Remington went "modern" and figured out how to make assembly line machines stamp out parts that could be made to fit in almost any other 870. Neither wins the reliability race over the other. However, the Model 12 wins the race when it comes to knowing you have an essentially handcrafted shotgun.

The rest of the story:

https://calibremag.ca/remington-870-vs-winchester-model-12/

If I’m wingshooting with a pump, it better have some class and craftsmanship or something..,, usually eliminates the 870.
You shouldn’t be afraid to open the choke on that M12, IMO.....I wouldn’t sweat it, done right. Also, might just order some Kent TM (not bismuth), when you can find a deal, and it’ll love that full choke. How much do you intend to shoot it, anyway?

My point is and was very simple. Check the m12 with high brass loads before you spend dime one doing custom work on it that will hurt the collector value even if it shoots better. If it does not function correctly because of a barrel chamber that is larger than the chamber extension ring YOU HAVE A MAJOR problem that needs correction first. I know what I'm talking about. MB